Delisle Carbine

rayzorloo

rayzorloo

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Hey CGN,

Anyone on here heard of this carbine? Stumbled on this description of the rifle. Sounds like this is quite a rare item. I am relatively new to the hobby so I'm not surprised I hadn't heard of it but wonder if anyone with more knowledge has?

"Delisle Carbine. This was designed in WWII, and used mainly for attacking a specific point with surgical precision. It uses .45 ACP and modified 1911 magazines, and the entire barrel is a baffled suppressor. The loudest sound this gun makes is the bolt throw, modified from an Enfield."
 
These are the unicorns of gun collecting. Unobtanium in Canada because of the suppressor. Buggers to shoot reliably. FWIW, surf to Forgotten Weapons on YT, and see what Ian "The Gun Jesus" says about them.
 
Several companies have tried to produce conversion kits. I think Wolverine in Virden, MB had some this year. The problem is not with the companies, but the fundamentals of the basic receiver when converting from a long stroke rifle bolt to a short stroke pistol cartridge.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
Several companies have tried to produce conversion kits. I think Wolverine in Virden, MB had some this year. The problem is not with the companies, but the fundamentals of the basic receiver when converting from a long stroke rifle bolt to a short stroke pistol cartridge.
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Well there conversion kits are just a 16.5" 45 ACP barrel, and mag adapter for 1911, not quite a Delisle conversion.. But you would need to make a shroud, and other parts.

A CGN'er is making one for me. Originally planned on running a AR quad rail, but we ended up with this. He hasn't sent me a picture with the adapter. I'll be making a new forearm. Unfortually won't have iron sights.

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The standard No. 4 rear sight could be installed, and a front sight fitted to the top of the casing.

The Delisle isn't just a SMLE rebarrelled with a .45 pistol barrel. The bolt is shortened substantially, and the barrel is brought back into the receiver. The receiver is bored out for the barrel.
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That isn't a barrel in the photos - its just a mockup.
A member here made a number of exact Delisle reproductions (with a full length barrel running through the casing).
In the Delisle, the barrel is not centered in the casing. It is significantly offset, with the greater part of the casing below the barrel.
 

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Here is a receiver set up to be bored out for the barrel. The receiver is fitted with a mandrel, which is held in the lathe's chuck. A sleeve is threaded into the receiver ring. This sleeve is centered up in the lathe's steady rest. Once everything is trued up on the lathe, a boring bar is run through the sleeve and into the receiver, opening out the receiver, back to reach the bolt.
This is only one way. A vertical milling machine can be used with a boring bar.
A SMLE receiver is not hardened, which makes the machining easier; only hardening is at the locking abutments. The bolt, on the other hand, is hard, so it must be annealed before it can be threaded deeper, and shortened. It must also be drilled out, to make room for the striker spring.
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maple_leaf_eh said:
Several companies have tried to produce conversion kits. I think Wolverine in Virden, MB had some this year. The problem is not with the companies, but the fundamentals of the basic receiver when converting from a long stroke rifle bolt to a short stroke pistol cartridge.
Click to expand...

The problem is with legislation, short barrel and suppressor make the RCMP have fits. :rolleyes:

Grizz
 
Grizzly Adams said:
The problem is with legislation, short barrel and suppressor make the RCMP have fits. :rolleyes:

Grizz
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Ummm? Nope. Suppressors we know are highly antisocial. Homemade short barrels are "sawed off" and therefore illegal. But, as has been thrashed around many times, if the barrel is manufactured by a licenced Canadian gun manufacturer, it is legit'. Not my rules, but how I've read the conversations.
 
There is no legal requirement for a gun barrel to be made by a licenced Canadian manufacturer.
There are no Lee Enfields originally made in pistol calibers, so there are no barrels to saw off. Any pistol caliber barrel is going to be a replacement, and because there is no minimum barrel length prescribed for manually operated rifles, the overall length is the limiting factor.
The reproductions made with barrels extending through the casing cost the better part of $2000, starting with the customer's action and stock. There is a lot of work in the conversion, and a lot of parts to be made.
Installing a replacement barrel on a Lee Enfield is quite straightforward. Using a Savage style barrel nut makes it quite easy to install a threaded, chambered replacement. The Valkyrie magazine adapter sure makes using a pistol caliber magazine easier. But these Valkyrie style conversions don't have much in common with a Delisle, apart from being pistol caliber.
Original Delisle's were made to a pattern, but each was more or less a one-off because of the fitting and fiddling required to convert the actions and fit the barrels.
 
tiriaq said:
There is no legal requirement for a gun barrel to be made by a licenced Canadian manufacturer.
There are no Lee Enfields originally made in pistol calibers, so there are no barrels to saw off. Any pistol caliber barrel is going to be a replacement, and because there is no minimum barrel length prescribed for manually operated rifles, the overall length is the limiting factor.
The reproductions made with barrels extending through the casing cost the better part of $2000, starting with the customer's action and stock. There is a lot of work in the conversion, and a lot of parts to be made.
Installing a replacement barrel on a Lee Enfield is quite straightforward. Using a Savage style barrel nut makes it quite easy to install a threaded, chambered replacement. The Valkyrie magazine adapter sure makes using a pistol caliber magazine easier. But these Valkyrie style conversions don't have much in common with a Delisle, apart from being pistol caliber.
Original Delisle's were made to a pattern, but each was more or less a one-off because of the fitting and fiddling required to convert the actions and fit the barrels.
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$2000 is an absolute bargain considering the work that has to be done to make an authentic Delisle carbine. I don't suppose you could nudge the individual who is making these into doing a build thread? :)
 
There are some accounts in Skennerton's little book, possibly in Laidlers. They did see some use.
Keep in mind that there was only a handful made, relatively late in the War.
There are reports of post WW2 use.
On the other hand, Mk. 2 and Mk. 6 Stens were produced in substantial numbers and were at least as effective for service use.
The Delisle is pretty much a curiosity with exotic appeal.
I have seen a video of a correct legal reproduction being fired in Germany on an indoor range, and it was quite effective. Bullet impact was much louder than any firearm noise.
The Valkyrie Arms repro demonstrated on Forgotten weapons didn't require hearing protection, and the firing pin snap could be heard. No idea if its suppressor was a duplicate of the Delisle or not.
The Delisle suppressor is old technology; I would suspect that the best modern units are more effective, and a lot more compact.
 
tiriaq said:
There are some accounts in Skennerton's little book, possibly in Laidlers. They did see some use.
Keep in mind that there was only a handful made, relatively late in the War.
There are reports of post WW2 use.
On the other hand, Mk. 2 and Mk. 6 Stens were produced in substantial numbers and were at least as effective for service use.
The Delisle is pretty much a curiosity with exotic appeal.
I have seen a video of a correct legal reproduction being fired in Germany on an indoor range, and it was quite effective. Bullet impact was much louder than any firearm noise.
The Valkyrie Arms repro demonstrated on Forgotten weapons didn't require hearing protection, and the firing pin snap could be heard. No idea if its suppressor was a duplicate of the Delisle or not.
The Delisle suppressor is old technology; I would suspect that the best modern units are more effective, and a lot more compact.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your interesting post , I can understand that the Delisle is old technology, the Welrod suppressed pistol, is apparently from what I can gather much quieter , reported of being used in Northern Ireland, Falklands and Desert Storm, 14,000 produced
 
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It is interesting that the Sten and Welrod units employed wipes at the muzzle of the unit, while the Delisle didn't.
Folks are concerned about muzzle crowns and accuracy, while with these units, the bullets must push their way through a resilient barrier.
 
Here is mine. It was a winter project. I do not have much time to share details but here are some pictures
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