depriming an FTF

[IronCanadian]

When loading for the Garand primers need to be seated slightly below flush with the case head to avoid the possibility of the bolt face making direct contact with the primer during feeding and chambering. Correct firing pin protrusion from the bolt face is an issue. There are max/mins for this which can be checked with a gauge. There is a possibility that crud has accumulated inside the bolt which might be preventing the firing pin from going as far forward as it should. It is worth stripping the bolt to clean both the firing pin and the bolt interior. You might post a pic of the case heads to show primer strikes on both fired and unfired cases. I've fired a lot of Garand handloads with Rem primers with no problems. Another issue might be oil contamination of the primers as this percentage of failures just isn't normal.

Thanks purple, I was seating them below flush due to the reason you bring up. While the "weak" firing pin idea is in my head the strike on the primer for the rounds that fired and the ones that didn't don't look terribly different. Which makes me believe more than anything either I mucked them up or they were true duds.

I will clean the bolt, since it's the only thing on the rifle I didn't disassemble and clean.

I've attached a photo of the primers, the outside two shells are the FTF; middle fired.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[purple]

The 2 outside ones do look lighter. I'm still thinking an acumulation of crud inside the bolt. The Garand has a floating firing pin which depends on the hammer to give it's forward momentum. Firing pin length/protrusion can be an issue, but the one that fired looks like the pin has adequate protrusion.

 

[IronCanadian]

Again, thank you purple.

I'll clean up the bolt and see what it looks like.

As an FYI; because these were my first hand loads and I wanted to check for any over pressure signs I was feeding the rounds one at a time and pushing the bolt forward to lock it in place if that makes any difference to the discussion.

 

[Canadian_Zuk]

Again, thank you purple.

I'll clean up the bolt and see what it looks like.

As an FYI; because these were my first hand loads and I wanted to check for any over pressure signs I was feeding the rounds one at a time and pushing the bolt forward to lock it in place if that makes any difference to the discussion.

I'm not familiar with the Garand's, but in all my auto loader experience, it's always best to not ride the bolt closed. Pull back On the charging handle and let it slam home home. This ensures the rifle goes into battery with the bolt fully closed.

 

[Conte]

I'm also going to try CCI primers in my next batch of Garand loads and see what happens.

Wait, what primers are you using?

You shouldn't just use any primer in a gun like that. Too soft and they can slamfire . . . or so I've been told.

I've never experienced a slam fire in my M14 due to soft primers, but I only ever use CCI 200's, and have never tried anything else.

 

[purple]

In a lot of Garands the floating firing pin gains enough inertia when the bolt closes into battery to lightly "dimple" a primer without detonating it. You can check this by extracting an unfired round and examining the primer for a slight firing pin impression. For this reason it is always recommended that the rifle be loaded from a clip as opposed to inserting a round in the chamber and then letting the bolt slam forward from a fully open position. This is why there is a max/min spec for firing pin protrusion.

Primer seating and selection for a Garand or M14 type, which also has a floating firing pin, is a caution. Primer pockets should be cleaned of all crud and primers seated below flush with the casehead as a precaution against either detonation by contact with the bolt face or by firing pin inertia during feeding/chambering.


MILSPEC primers use a harder cup as a precaution against unintended detonation from firing pin contact during feeding/chambering. The only commercial primer which is made to MILSPEC is the CCI #34. That said, I have also used Winchester and Remington primers in many Garand/M14 handloads w/o any problem- subject to the caveats of cleaning the primer pockets and making certain that the primers are seated below flush with the case head. Federal primers are reputed to have the softest cup metal and I avoid using them in a Garand.

 

[IronCanadian]

Wait, what primers are you using?

You shouldn't just use any primer in a gun like that. Too soft and they can slamfire . . . or so I've been told.

I've never experienced a slam fire in my M14 due to soft primers, but I only ever use CCI 200's, and have never tried anything else.

As per information gleaned from several of the boards knowledgeable Garand shooters and hand loaders and from information found in books like Lyman's 49th I am staying away from the softer primers like Federal and making sure that the primers are seated below flush.

I'm not familiar with the Garand's, but in all my auto loader experience, it's always best to not ride the bolt closed. Pull back On the charging handle and let it slam home home. This ensures the rifle goes into battery with the bolt fully closed.

I was also advised by one of those, that if loading a round in the chamber one at a time, to not let the bolt slam home; rather ride the bolt and give the bolt handle a good bump to lock it home.

The reason being that stripping a round from the clip arrests the forward motion of the bolt, reducing the chance of a slam fire. If the round is in the chamber already and the bolt slams forward there is a better chance of a slam fire since the bolt is engaging the round with full force.

 

[Conte]

I was also advised by one of those, that if loading a round in the chamber one at a time, to not let the bolt slam home; rather ride the bolt and give the bolt handle a good bump to lock it home.

The reason being that stripping a round from the clip arrests the forward motion of the bolt, reducing the chance of a slam fire. If the round is in the chamber already and the bolt slams forward there is a better chance of a slam fire since the bolt is engaging the round with full force.

Yeah I learned that the hard way.
I've had but 3 slam fire in my M14 experience.

2 were caused my that. They actually happened to a buddie, whom after proper instruction, still failed to load the gun properly.

1 was caused by having too long an OAL on my cartridge, which was part of an experiment I was doing.

Using CCI 200, in a standard load, properly seating using a lee ram primer,
never had a problem.

 

[IronCanadian]

So I disassembled and cleaned the bolt last night, there was some carbon build up, but not gunky per se.

Thanks for everyone's insight, I'll see how it performs now and take it from there.

Cheers.

 

[flying pig]

The Garand slam fire is real. I was using Federal primers cuz its what my favorite shop had. All was good for 200rds or so, always cleaned pockets etc. Then it slammed on the 4th round out of a loaded clip. I put the Garand away and bought CCIs. Now I have 800 primers for my LE's. Could take a day or two to burn them up!

 

[joe-nwt]

If the primers didn't ignite after 2+ primer strikes it is highly unlikely they will suddenly go off while depriming. Not impossible but highly unlikely. Heck, I've deprimed hundreds+ of unstruck live primers and still consider them highly unlikely to go off. You really have nothing to worry about, wear safety glasses which you should be doing anyway.

 

[Ganderite]

Deprime as normal. You could not make it go bang if you tried.

If the primers were not seated all the way to the bottom of the pocket, the firing pin would be cushioned a bit and cause a misfire. Assuming the cases had powder in them (??) the 4895 is an easy to ignite powder, so it is most likely the primer did not fire.

 

[IronCanadian]

De-primed without issue, cases had powder, primers just didn't go bang.

I've picked up CCI primers and will be loading em up again soon, also got in some PRVI brass that I'm going to be trying out.

Thanks to everyone for their help.