Detecting over sized primer pockets?

[warrenb]

A few months ago I bought a bunch of once fired 308 brass. I have since fired them another 2 to 3 times. I am noticing that when I seat the primers into some cases that I don't get the same resistance I am used to. I use my press to seat. On inspection the primers are not a sloppy fit and I cannot insert them by hand. I have marked all these cases with a sharpy.

Are these cases ready for retirement?


EDIT : some have been fired 2 times and some 3.

 

[blargon]

tossem...One reason I like the hand-prime, you can really feel what going on there...

 

[B]

I prefer hand-priming too. "2 to 3 times".....You should keep more detailed records. If the brass passes visual and tactile inspection and a primer is held in well enough the cases are still ok.

 

[H4831]

How many times the case has been fired has little bearing on the primer pockets expanding.
One firing of an overload can expand the primer pocket so the case is beyond safe usage.
I see no point in keeping track of the history of their firing. You look at the case, no excessive marks of headspace problems, no cracks in the necks, then prime them. As the original poster mentioned, primers went in easier than usual, throw that case away.
It takes quite a heavy overload to expand the pockets. I have had single loads that stuck the bolt, but didn't make any noticeable swelling of the pockets. If your cases are expanding the pockets after only two or three firings, it is time to look at your loads being used.

 

[curtmg]

I've only had blown pockets once, on twice fired 300WM Hornady brass. It was very noticeable, after they slid in, I took a little dental pick and poked inside to pop them out. They were so enlarged I could prime the cases with my bare hands. I put that whole lot aside, as more than half the cases were like that. They had been through a fairly hot load, with 220gr bullets, so I don't blame the brass for being weak. There were actually more than a few pressure signs with the load (stiff bolt, flat primers), so even though accuracy was good, I never used it again. The load I use now is actually about 3.5 gr less than the one that caused all that.

 

[303carbine]

A few months ago I bought a bunch of once fired 308 brass. I have since fired them another 2 to 3 times. I am noticing that when I seat the primers into some cases that I don't get the same resistance I am used to. I use my press to seat. On inspection the primers are not a sloppy fit and I cannot insert them by hand. I have marked all these cases with a sharpy.

Are these cases ready for retirement?


EDIT : some have been fired 2 times and some 3.

I notice that Remington primers seat easier than Federal, even in the same case. I believe that not all primers are the exact same diameter.

 

[warrenb]

H4831,

I'm loading 308, 150 grn bullets under 45.5 grains of varget. I'm trying for accuracy rather than velocity. However I was seating them as per factory loads, much shorter than 2.800 OAL.
I went up to 46.5 grains without signs of pressure and then went back, as 45.5 gave me 8 out of 9 shots in under an inch. I have not repeated this grouping however.

I just wondered if my once fired brass's history could be suspect, and so it should be junked. Based on what you guys have said I think I will junk it.

 

[303carbine]

A few months ago I bought a bunch of once fired 308 brass. I have since fired them another 2 to 3 times. I am noticing that when I seat the primers into some cases that I don't get the same resistance I am used to. I use my press to seat. On inspection the primers are not a sloppy fit and I cannot insert them by hand. I have marked all these cases with a sharpy.

Are these cases ready for retirement?


EDIT : some have been fired 2 times and some 3.

What brand of brass are you using??
If it's PMC, they are JUNK.........

 

[warrenb]

winchester brass and winchester primers.

I just ordered new brass off andrew. I'l junk these ones. Better to be safe than sorry.

 

[Dogleg]

I notice that Remington primers seat easier than Federal, even in the same case. I believe that not all primers are the exact same diameter.

I've seen the exact same thing with Remington primers being loose where Federals and others are tight in the same case. I took a micrometer to them and came up with the same dimensions for both brands so that isn't it. I don't know if the cups are a bit softer or thinner or less springy or shaped differently in cross section but Remingtons can fit loose in good cases.
Remington primers in soft federal cases can really drive you nuts.

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

OK, I am going to ask my question here. I have around 100 pieces of once fired .303 brass. Its all from new commercial ammo. Its mostly Winchester with some Federal and Imperial mixed in. I noticed while priming, that they are a little easier to prime then past brass. The winchesters were not bad, but the Federals were so Bad I decided to stop priming them after 5 loose ones in a row. I was able to push the primers in by pressing the case down on the bench.

My thought was this was because I cleaned the brass in my tumbler after I decaped and there was less crud in the pocket.

Is there a way to tell if the primers are too looses before I load them? I did not think anything at first, but after the bunch i started to think.

 

[warrenb]

I obviously don't know the answers, but I cannot seat my primers by pushing down on them on the bench. If I could do that I would chuck them directly.

 

[stubblejumper]

How many times the case has been fired has little bearing on the primer pockets expanding.

Actually it does.A primer pocket can expand slightly with every firing,and the effect is cumulative.

It takes quite a heavy overload to expand the pockets.

Not really that heavy.A load that shows no other pressure signs can cause loose primer pockets after a few firings.A really heavy overload will likely show other pressure signs as well.

 

[GAIRLOCHIAN]

I use a no go gage that i made to check primer pocket before I seat the primer.Search Gairlochian on EE of other stuff for pics.

 

[manitou210]

Hart primer pocket swager works great tightens up loose primer pockets
Hart's "case saver"primer pocket swager

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Someone here posted a link a while back to a product that they had some interest in, but no one here seemed to have any experiance with it. It was called a "case saver" primer pocket swager to the best of my recollection. I got one to try out. I can say without a doubt that it is money well spent.
Using this product I was able to get 9 firings from a Jamison 338AM case and the primer pocket will still hold. After 4 loadings I used the swager once, I did not have to use it again. I retired the case after 9 firings because the flash hole was eroding somewhat.
The real reason I bought the tool was to try and salvage 100 pieces of .308 Lapua brass that only had one firing.....yea the load was hot. I was able to salvage all 100 pieces even the one that pierced a primer. I was so excited that it worked for that I then saved a bunch of 7RUM brass that I had abused a bit.
This tool works so well it is one of those gadgets that will make you mumble, "why didn't I think of that."
__________________
I admit that I know just enough to be dangerous.....but dangerous at ever extending distances.

 

[stubblejumper]

Hart primer pocket swager works great tightens up loose primer pockets
Hart's "case saver"primer pocket swager

If the primer pocket has been expanded to the point of being oversize,the case has seen too much pressure for my liking.At that point,it goes into the garbage.

 

[Cerdan]

How many times the case has been fired has little bearing on the primer pockets expanding.

For once I find myself disagreeing with you H4831. I've been shooting very moderate loads in .40S&W and after five or six loads, the primers are getting noticeable easier to seat.

 

[savagefan]

If the primer stays put, it's okay. The bolt head holds it in place and the shape of the "cup" swells to the case. If the primer falls out, chuck it. Same thing with smokey pockets.

 

[B]

For once I find myself disagreeing with you H4831. I've been shooting very moderate loads in .40S&W and after five or six loads, the primers are getting noticeable easier to seat.

X2 tho I notice it in various cartridges and usually after the first firing. If you can prime the brass with your hands I would definitely chuck it. If the brass is in good shape and needs a tool to prime why throw it out? Primer pockets expanding is normal IMO. Unless you have other concerns with the brass' integrity. Just my 0.02c....

If the primer stays put, it's okay. The bolt head holds it in place and the shape of the "cup" swells to the case.

Yep....

 

[H4831]

If you guys are going to quote me, I wish you would quote the whole thing. It takes pressure beyond what the cartridge was designed for, to expand the pockets. Just a bit too high and it maybe takes three, or five or seven loads to expand them to where they should be discarded. But they are overloads, none the less. A heavy overload can do it in one loading.
I have loaded 270 and 30-06 cases, with full power loads, as many as twenty, or more times, and the primers went in as tight as they did when they were new. At least it could not be noticed that they went in easier.
My standard load at that time for the 06 with 180 grain bullets was with Norma powder. It was an easy load to shoot, but Norma, the only company that wrote honest velocity figures, stated it went 2700 fps. At that time the US companies gave exagerated velocity figures. I have not examined new loading books, so don't know what they do now. Years later when I chronographed my standard load, it was just on the high side of 2700 fps! With these loads the primer pockets did not expand.
My bottom line, in stating not to bother counting how many times they had been fired, was just to examine the case as it was loaded. careful priming lets you know if the pockets have expanded. Thus, I will stick to my statement, it doesn't matter how many times they have been fired. What counts is whether the pockets espanded.
Please don't pick out any small portion of this to quote. If you are going to quote, use the entire post, so as not to take things out of context.