Did the SKS see service in ww2?
- Thread starter basicbill
- Start date
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
It would seem you answered your own question, if you did some research and found indications that it was haha.
From what I've heard there was some WW2 prototype testing but no large scale production or regular issued service.
From what I've heard there was some WW2 prototype testing but no large scale production or regular issued service.
Its my understanding that thoses SKS were tests prototypes and used in battle on Belorussian front by fews units. After report from service, they were slightly modified and adopted as the SKS model 1945,as we know them. Documentations seems very very scarce.
Joce
Russia didn't talk about weapons development; they just developed weapons and then used them.
The SKS was banned from WW2-type matches both here and at CFB Shilo until one fellow came up with a photograph of one being used in Berlin in April, 1945, a few days before the end of the fighting. That settled things and now the SKS is regularly used as a Carbine or Intermediate-class arm in 3-gun shoots requiring such. In the Bulge match, for example, you need a full-power rifle for the 400 targets, a pistol for the 25- and 50-yard ones and something Intermediate for the ones from 125 through to 250 or 325. The rules state that you can shoot a lesser gun at a longer range but not vice versa.
It was all SO much better when we still could use the Reisings. Considering that the Federal Gummint has said all along that they WILL NOT interfere with target shooting, they have done one helluvva job of screwing it up for us! "They lie.... and so we must be merciful...." (Col. Kurtz in "Apocalypse Now!")
These days, the well-equipped Bulge team uses a Garand or a Number 4 for full-power (SVTs do show up, as do Rosses), SKS or Carbine for Intermediate, and a variety of handguns for close-in; stocked Lugers do well here although .45s are more popular. The Reising, when it could be shot, was bad medicine out to 250 on the heavy plates. TT-33, surprisingly, can do very well out to 200!
But, yes, the SKS IS a real wartime rifle; it got its "45" in the designation honestly. The mods post-War were pretty minor, so what you hold today (and all-too-often disrespect and dress up like a Barbie doll) is essentially the Last Word in WW2 combat rifles.
Russia had other surprises at the end of the War. They showed up at the Victory Parade through Berlin with a trainload of Josef Stalin III tanks, an absolute monster which we did not know even existed..... until it was in large-scale series production. We had nothing which could come close to fighting the thing. Just a little surprise from Uncle Joe.
The Cold War started about a week before Adolf shot himself.
The good part is that now WE have the SKSs!
.
The SKS was banned from WW2-type matches both here and at CFB Shilo until one fellow came up with a photograph of one being used in Berlin in April, 1945, a few days before the end of the fighting. That settled things and now the SKS is regularly used as a Carbine or Intermediate-class arm in 3-gun shoots requiring such. In the Bulge match, for example, you need a full-power rifle for the 400 targets, a pistol for the 25- and 50-yard ones and something Intermediate for the ones from 125 through to 250 or 325. The rules state that you can shoot a lesser gun at a longer range but not vice versa.
It was all SO much better when we still could use the Reisings. Considering that the Federal Gummint has said all along that they WILL NOT interfere with target shooting, they have done one helluvva job of screwing it up for us! "They lie.... and so we must be merciful...." (Col. Kurtz in "Apocalypse Now!")
These days, the well-equipped Bulge team uses a Garand or a Number 4 for full-power (SVTs do show up, as do Rosses), SKS or Carbine for Intermediate, and a variety of handguns for close-in; stocked Lugers do well here although .45s are more popular. The Reising, when it could be shot, was bad medicine out to 250 on the heavy plates. TT-33, surprisingly, can do very well out to 200!
But, yes, the SKS IS a real wartime rifle; it got its "45" in the designation honestly. The mods post-War were pretty minor, so what you hold today (and all-too-often disrespect and dress up like a Barbie doll) is essentially the Last Word in WW2 combat rifles.
Russia had other surprises at the end of the War. They showed up at the Victory Parade through Berlin with a trainload of Josef Stalin III tanks, an absolute monster which we did not know even existed..... until it was in large-scale series production. We had nothing which could come close to fighting the thing. Just a little surprise from Uncle Joe.
The Cold War started about a week before Adolf shot himself.
The good part is that now WE have the SKSs!
.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Haha 52?!?! So much for my 49 and 50 stamped gun. Its called an SKS-45 for a reason.
In "Soviet Small Arms and Ammunition", Russian historian D. Bolotin states that "The first batch of carbines was sent to units engaged on the First Byelorussian Front and to the Vistrel officer-training school......The trials commission of the First Byelorussian Front, realising that the advantages outweighed the flaws, recommended perfecting the carbine....Simonov subsequently introduced a number of changes...until in 1949 it was adopted as the SKS-45."
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
And the First Belorussian Front lasted from October 1943 to June 1945. It made it in... just.
maple_leaf_eh
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Never trust Wikipedia! The good thing about Wiki is anyone can add to the body of knowledge. The opposite is also true. Some of my posts keep getting changed by spiteful or single issue contributors.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Huh? You learn something every day.
I always thought that 1949 was the first year of production for the SKS.
Very interesting.
I always thought that 1949 was the first year of production for the SKS.
Very interesting.
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
49 was the first year or regular mass production. Before that it was limited production to select units for trial testing. Think product development.
Just think how many other gun designs were trialed in such a way that never went any further. Gone to the back drawer of history.
According to Assualt Rifle, by Maxim Popenker and Anthony Williams,
http://www.amazon.ca/Assault-Rifle-Maxim-Popenker/dp/1861267002
and The World's Assualt Rifles, by Gary Johnston and Thomas Nelson,
http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Assault-Rifles-Gary-Johnston/dp/0935554009
the original SKS protypes used a different cartridge, the 7.62x41.
Rather odd, as the x39 has an adoption date of 1943.
http://www.amazon.ca/Assault-Rifle-Maxim-Popenker/dp/1861267002
and The World's Assualt Rifles, by Gary Johnston and Thomas Nelson,
http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Assault-Rifles-Gary-Johnston/dp/0935554009
the original SKS protypes used a different cartridge, the 7.62x41.
Rather odd, as the x39 has an adoption date of 1943.
300Spartans
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Canada of course
If Tapco was around back then, the Russians would have conquered all of Western Europe.
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
So it was basically an early prototype of the SKS, which then underwent redesigning before going into mass production in 1949?
Technically I guess it wasn't truly an SKS as we know them today then, splitting hairs I suppose.
Does anyone have or know of any pictures of the early prototypes such as the one mentioned already?
Technically I guess it wasn't truly an SKS as we know them today then, splitting hairs I suppose.
Does anyone have or know of any pictures of the early prototypes such as the one mentioned already?
- Location
- East of Home, West of the Rest
Its an "SKS45". Nothing major changed from the 1945 so it isn't called an "SKS49".
I did see an SKS with 1948 engraved on the recoil spring cover. Looked like it was written with an electro-pen engraver. Was the only part of the gun that looked early SKS, heavy refurb. Should have grabbed it for the spring cover alone.
I did see an SKS with 1948 engraved on the recoil spring cover. Looked like it was written with an electro-pen engraver. Was the only part of the gun that looked early SKS, heavy refurb. Should have grabbed it for the spring cover alone.
It did see combat in the later months of the war as already covered, and was "well regarded."
I don't normally trust Soviet sources saying that they liked something as it's usually pure propaganda, but if the 1945 SKS's were more or less the same function-wise as the ones that were mass produced from 1949-1955/56 I can see it actually being true. Had the SKS been made in time for mass production to replace or even supplement the 91/30 it would have been one of the best rifles of the war, especially for the eastern front considering the large amount of urban fighting and the shorter (for the time) barrel length the rifle had. Not to mention the fact that the SKS was leagues ahead of the somewhat finicky SVT-40. The only people who highly regarded the SVT-40 were the best troops the Russians had, and the Germans, because both groups knew how to properly maintain weapons. It's not too hard to see the slightly difficult gas system on the SVT-40 causing problems for a soldier that had absolutely no training in regards to cleaning and maintaining it, and it did cause problems for them. An SKS with its much simpler design would have done the Russians very well if they had say, started mass producing it around 1942. If the Germans felt they were outgunned by the amount of PPSh's they would encounter, imagine carrying a 98K and running into a squad of Russians with PPSh's and SKS rifles! Wouldn't be a good day out, I'm sure.
One thing that I find very interesting and somewhat sad about the SKS was that it was never made in time to be relevant. By the mid 1950's the AK was around which was by all means a better rifle in all respects but accuracy. Oh well, it's still fun and I love collecting it.
I don't normally trust Soviet sources saying that they liked something as it's usually pure propaganda, but if the 1945 SKS's were more or less the same function-wise as the ones that were mass produced from 1949-1955/56 I can see it actually being true. Had the SKS been made in time for mass production to replace or even supplement the 91/30 it would have been one of the best rifles of the war, especially for the eastern front considering the large amount of urban fighting and the shorter (for the time) barrel length the rifle had. Not to mention the fact that the SKS was leagues ahead of the somewhat finicky SVT-40. The only people who highly regarded the SVT-40 were the best troops the Russians had, and the Germans, because both groups knew how to properly maintain weapons. It's not too hard to see the slightly difficult gas system on the SVT-40 causing problems for a soldier that had absolutely no training in regards to cleaning and maintaining it, and it did cause problems for them. An SKS with its much simpler design would have done the Russians very well if they had say, started mass producing it around 1942. If the Germans felt they were outgunned by the amount of PPSh's they would encounter, imagine carrying a 98K and running into a squad of Russians with PPSh's and SKS rifles! Wouldn't be a good day out, I'm sure.
One thing that I find very interesting and somewhat sad about the SKS was that it was never made in time to be relevant. By the mid 1950's the AK was around which was by all means a better rifle in all respects but accuracy. Oh well, it's still fun and I love collecting it.
