difference in primers

mudbug

mudbug

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please bear with me if this has been inquired about before but.. which primers have the hottest ignition temp. In my 223 I use cci 450 primers with varget and in the 270 I'm using winchester large rifle primers with H4831sc and am curious where these primers are in the hierachy in the primer "hotness factor".
Also would using magnum primers in the 270 be benificial in any way?
 
I never use magnum primer in regular rifle caliber, it is possible that the hotter ignition temp, produce a pressure spike.I would not recommend.

Use of magnum primers is limited to the ignition of a large amount of slow burning powders in a large case.Like .300 win mag and others in that category.

I dont think that the use of magnum primers in your .270 is a good idea.
 
I emailed CCI regarding CCI #34 primers (used in 7.62 nato), and they told me that consumers should regard this primer as a magnum primer.

I know a tonne of people use this primer (when its available) in .308 win with no problems. I created a thread awhile ago on the subject.

Considering .270 has more case volume then .308 win, I would think it would be safer then using magnum primers in .308 .. but then I don't have any scientific numbers to back this statement up .. I also only use Large Rifle primers in my loads only so :)

Take what I just said with a grain of salt.
 
redflag said:
I never use magnum primer in regular rifle caliber, it is possible that the hotter ignition temp, produce a pressure spike.I would not recommend.

Use of magnum primers is limited to the ignition of a large amount of slow burning powders in a large case.Like .300 win mag and others in that category.

I dont think that the use of magnum primers in your .270 is a good idea.
Click to expand...

So long as your loads are developed with whatever primer you choose to use, you will be fine. Many people use "magnum" primers in standard type cartridges.

It has been proven many times in different studies, that the strength of the firing pin strike has a greater effect on ignition temperature than standard vs. magnum primers.

It likely is not necessary, but using magnum primers in a .270 is in no way dangerous, so long as proper load development procedures are used, not just subbing in a magnum primer for a standard one, without reducing the load and working back up.
 
redflag said:
I never use magnum primer in regular rifle caliber, it is possible that the hotter ignition temp, produce a pressure spike.I would not recommend.

Use of magnum primers is limited to the ignition of a large amount of slow burning powders in a large case.Like .300 win mag and others in that category.

I dont think that the use of magnum primers in your .270 is a good idea.
Click to expand...

Many smaller cases than the 270 use mag primers such as the .308, especially with ball powders. You could use a mag primer in all loads, but I would start at the bottom and work up again whenever a component is changed.I use Rem 9/12M in .303 without a hitch and adjust charge accordingly. Making a (dumb) statement like a mag primer in a 270 is a bad idea is ridiculous to say the least,read some more reloading manuals before you give such uneducated advice.
 
magnum primers are often recomended even in small cases for cold weather use. most of my hunting loads use fed 215 and cci 250 primers. if starting low and working up a load magnum primers are no more dangerus than standard primers.
 
One of the best source regarding primers (and powders) is the Norma Reloading Databook, No.1.
They made some good testing under different environmental conditions.

For a non scientific but interesting reference, see this;

ht tp://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

While lots of informations are missing, the test procedure is quite interesting and is similar to the one we used to test arrows power (called pendulum technique).
 
"So long as your loads are developed with whatever primer you choose to use, you will be fine. Many people use "magnum" primers in standard type cartridges.

It likely is not necessary, but using magnum primers in a .270 is in no way dangerous, so long as proper load development procedures are used, not just subbing in a magnum primer for a standard one, without reducing the load and working back up."

Like he said.

The Federal and CCI standard primers are similar, except Federal cup is softer. The standard Wincester primer is hotter because it is intended for igniting ball powder.

Then the Federal and CCI Magnum primers are hotter still with the Winchester Magnum being similar or slightly hotter.

You can use any primer you want, in any application. If it works, it works.

But, if you use a standard CCI or Federal primer for ball powder, you can have ignition problems when conditions get a little worse - say softer strike in cold weather. Same problem if you don't use a Magnum primer for big cases full of slow powder. Might be just fine in the summer but a bummer in the fall and winter.

For non magnum and non ball applications, a hunter could buy some cold weather insurance by using the Winchester standard primer.

Magnum primers burn longer to improve ignition of heavily coated slow powders.

If you want to test primers, load a primed case and shoot it at a piece of paper 6" from the rifle muzzle. Do it in the dark and you will see the difference.
 
Here is a quote by TimberPig:---"It has been proven many times in different studies, that the strength of the firing pin strike has a greater effect on ignition temperature than standard vs. magnum primers."

That is exactly right. Years ago I read the report of a very extensive test of primers in a lab. That was the conclusion. A magnum primer fired in a gun with a weak firing pin has less power than a standard primer, fired in a gun with a hard hitting firing pin.
In all the talk about reloading components, I think nothing is so overdone, as the talk about the difference between standard and magnum primers.
I have been reloading for more than a few years, lots of different calibres, in both rifle and handgun. As I have said on here before, I have never made any distinction between the two types of primers. I have never changed my load because of a different primer and I have never noticed any difference, whatsoever, in pressure, between standard and magnum primers.
At one time I used RWS primers exclusively. A while back I saw where RWS primers gave the most fire of any primer tested in a lab test, including the so called magnum primers they tested.
All of this material in loading manuals about building up your load everytime you change primers, only came about after we entered the litigatious world of mass suing.
 
At the risk of repeating what has already been reported, a hot primer is a better choice when loading with ball powder, very slow burning extruded powder, for use in cold weather, and when powder charges exceed 50 grs. Using that same hot primer for reduced loads, standard loads, or loads to be used in warm temperatures does no harm, provided the loads are worked up with those primers. Ammunition that is going to be exposed to high temperatures should be worked up for those temperature conditions.
 
I don't want to flog a dead horse, (or any horse,) but just want to add a quote to this.
Bob Hagel had a book published in 1978, by Alfred A. Knopf, of New York, entitled, Game Loads and Practical Ballistics for the American Hunter.
Here is what he has on page 295.
"A good deal has been written here and there regarding the effect of different brands of primers on velocity with all other components being the same, as well as the difference between the so-called standard and magnum primers in igniting large charges of any powder and any charge of ball powder. I have run very extensive tests of comparison with nearly all brands and styles of primers, and there isn't enough difference between any of them to matter much. The only suggestion here, if you wish to expiremint, is that you may find one brand gives better accuracy than another in combination with the other components used to make up your load."
 
Thanks for the help.
I bought a thousand winchester large rifle primers to try. hope they work out, as that was all I could find anyways.... primers seem tough to find ...
 
MUDBUG, I've asked this question a few times in the past, on different reloading forums. A lot of good advice has been given above, it doesn't matter that much. The Win Large rifle primers you bought are popular, and should be fine. Most guys run into the same thing as you, and buy whats available. Don't worry about it.
 
primers

There was a really good article in Handloader magazine a couple years back and IIRC it was all based on pressure tested data, not subjective data eg primer flattening etc. it basically said what H4831 said above, mix and match wasn't a huge(safety) deal. one interesting point was that when winchester primers were substituted in the loads using the same powder charges they ran about 5000psi higher pressures than all of the other brands of primers yet showed no increase in velocity.
cueball
 
I had to load 40,000 rounds of 308 match ammo for a police contract. I buy primed brass made to my specs with my favourite primer, the Federal 210M. The powder was RL15.

The factory called and said "Can't get the Federal primers, Is winchster ok?"

"Sure", I said.

We loaded some ammo withthe new brass/primer, and some with a Federal primer, subsituted, just to see what the difference was. Wichester was 25 fps faster (slightly higher pressure, I assume) and accuracy was the same.

I use federal, CCI and Winchester all the time. I prefer to buy them at least 10,000 at a time so the lot numbers don't change so often and to reduce the risk of being caught with no primers. At the moment, Winchester seems to be the only one available. I am comfortable with that.
 
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