Dillon 650 & I, rediscovered love...

peter2772000

peter2772000

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Montreal, Quebec, Canada
For those of you who don't remember, I'd been having nothing but problems with my 650 since I bought it back in Feb. of this year.

- Shell-plate for 38/357 was machined too tight (replaced under warranty)
- Ejector wire pops off. Depending on the cartridge, it may actually jump into the air or rise up enuf to cause the case to bind as it attempts to eject down into the chute (mostly an issue with 38/357)
- Excessive binding at station 1, regardless of caliber


Anyways, I just reloaded in 44 Mag. I actually reloaded 200 rounds (comprised of 11, 10, 9 & 8 grains of HP-38 pushing copper-plated 240 grain bullets @ 50 rounds per recipe) without having to use the bullet puller once.

I was using brand new Winchester cases and an assortment of Winchester/CCI primers.

The kicker. I didn't have one ejector wire incident. My 650 and I performed as a team. It was beautiful. Imagine, if you will, a perfectly-choreographed dance with Paula Abdul & yourself. THIS WAS THAT GOOD. :p

I'm off to the range this am to see how my Desert Eagle handles the above-mentioned loads. I'm fully expecting issues as I go down in powder charges, DE's are fussy about full-power loads. Which was the justification for buying a 4 inched Model 29 this past week. Whatever weaker loads I make, I can use in the Model 29.

Am I smart or what, huh? :bsFlag:
 
The Dillion 650 is a piece of dog-poo.
As you are my friend, I will offer to purchase it from you and I'll go as high as $100 cause I like you.

I load my .44 stuff on my single stage as I don't shoot enough of it to invest on the necessary parts for the progressive.

I helped TacticalDan set his gear up a few weeks back. I no sooner left him alone when he blew up the primer feeder and scared the crap outta himself. Some folks should not reload! LOL

I gotta start reloading more myself... impending zombie attacks have been confirmed!
 
glad to hear its working better for you . strange you had the many problems you did encounter,mine has loaded many rounds in the 4 years i have had it and not one hiccup from it( unless i short stroked the ram) have fun with your loads and good shootin
 
I love my Dillon XL650, mine has the strong mount, bullet tray, roller handle and case feeder. Does it work flawlessly 100% of the time? No, but close enough to save tons of time VS. single stage loading. With primer tubes ready and waiting I can reload about 800 .40 S&W rounds per hour. I'd buy one again in a heartbeat.
 
Problems are part of any learning curve. Doesn't matter what you use, initially it sucks. I cursed a blue streak when I first set up my Lee 1000. I was going to trash the thing. Once I got it set up "properly" and used to its quirks... I have since loaded LOTS of ammo with it without issue. Sure, I would love a Dillon, but it is too pricey for my means.

Peter will eventually sell me his for next to nothing... LOL
 
Whatcha trying to say, Antoine? :p

Antoine actually came over one Sunday morning to see what the problem was with the ejector wire. Unfortunately, I didn't have the 38/357 dies at the time, so we reloaded .40 instead. Sum##### never hiccupped once in front of him.
Antoine then proceeded to beotch-slap me and call me a two-faced liar hired by the competition to slander the Dillon name. I still have bruises on some parts of my body....:redface:


Griffy; you'll get my Dillon for $100 the day you finally agree to lather up in KY and let me ride you like a pony. "Till then, keep at it with your single-stage, ole friend ;)
 
Antoine22 said:
The only problem with the XL650 is it's not idiot proof. ;)
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:D
I thought I was in heaven when I got my first RCBS Rockchucker......way back when I didn't need two birthday cakes to hold all the candles.

My Dillon progressive in comparison was like the day an even longer time ago when a girl showed me that my own "candle" had more uses than just peeing.;)
 
Almost forgot! My max loads of 11 grains on HP-38 pushing 240 grain bullets is underpowered, believe it or not :eek:

The recoil is wonderfully tame, but the downside is that the load doesn't have enuf ooomph to push the slide back enuf to strip a new cartridge off the mag. I'm wondering if an insufficient crimp would cause this "underpoweredness" :p. The bullets I was using (Frontier 240 grain copper-plated flat-points) have a miniscule groove which I believe is where they want you to seat the bullet. It comes out to a OAL of 1.6" which is pretty well specified for 44 mags in general.

Any opinions? Do I re-crimp tighter or work up some loads of 12-13 grains of HP-38?
 
peter2772000 said:
Almost forgot! My max loads of 11 grains on HP-38 pushing 240 grain bullets is underpowered, believe it or not :eek:

The recoil is wonderfully tame, but the downside is that the load doesn't have enuf ooomph to push the slide back enuf to strip a new cartridge off the mag. I'm wondering if an insufficient crimp would cause this "underpoweredness" :p. The bullets I was using (Frontier 240 grain copper-plated flat-points) have a miniscule groove which I believe is where they want you to seat the bullet. It comes out to a OAL of 1.6" which is pretty well specified for 44 mags in general.

Any opinions? Do I re-crimp tighter or work up some loads of 12-13 grains of HP-38?
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Wrong approach. For safety, switch to a slower powder when trying to load near maximum.

I'd use H-110 (or H-108 if Higginson's still have it cheap) and workup a powerhouse load. Then if the DE functions with it, start scaling back the powder until you find a happy balance between 100% functioning and recoil.

Desert Eagles are known for being fussy pricks, needing near max loads to function properly. Trying to get there with faster burning powders might result in unsafe pressures.
 
Damn! Exactly the answer I didn't wanna hear. The reason is simple.

I've got the attention span of an orangutan. I really didn't want to stock more than one type of powder. Not to mention the fact that H-110 is expensive AND requires double the grains of powder. :(
 
Canuck223 said:
Trying to get there with faster burning powders might result in unsafe pressures.
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On top of that, faster powders, regardless of pressure, have too short a pressure peak to operate the DE. It's like trying to run an AR-15 on blue dot.

Notice here: http://www.accuratepowder.com/data/... Remington Magnum pages 133 to 135.pdf#page=3 - only the slower powders are listed for a DE.

H-110 works well, and is the go-to powder for 44Mag in a DE. AA#9 also works well. If you can get AA 4100, it's a great powder for the application.
 
I think I'll try H-110 first and take it from there.
No one mentioned anything about my theory of insufficient crimps, so I guess that was a silly possibility.


EDIT: Man, one thing's bugging the heck outta me. I was hesitant to ask because I don't want to seem obstinant about my initial plan of jacking up the powder charge of HP-38 by another grain. But I really want to understand the "whys".

I understand the dangers of over-loading a powder charge. I know from what I've read before that flattening/cratering of primers is one sure-fire sign of overloading. But how can you get excessive pressures from a load if the perceived recoil is substantially lower than what you'd get with factory ammo? This is what's not sinking into my Brandy-soaked noggin.

Thanks for all the advice, guys! :rockOn:
 
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peter2772000 said:
I don't want to seem obstinant about my initial plan of jacking up the powder charge of HP-38 by another grain
[...]
how can you get excessive pressures from a load if the perceived recoil is substantially lower than what you'd get with factory ammo?
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In the first case, you will not be able to operate a DE on HP-38, period. It is a fast pistol powder, suited to smaller calibres, and does not generate enough gas. It will work fine in a revolver for reduced-velocity loads.

In the second case, recoil is mostly about the velocity of the bullet as it leaves the barrel.

With a fast powder, you get high pressures too briefly to move the bullet along briskly. With the slower powder, the pressure peak lasts longer and pushes the bullet faster. Think of it as a punch vs a shove. Roughly speaking. Also the slower powders use a larger charge and so generates more gas, which contributes to recoil.

Notice that the max velocity listed by Hodgdon for HP-38 on .44 Mag is about 250fps lower than that listed for H-110 as a result.
 
peter2772000 said:
But I really want to understand the "whys".

I understand the dangers of over-loading a powder charge. I know from what I've read before that flattening/cratering of primers is one sure-fire sign of overloading. But how can you get excessive pressures from a load if the perceived recoil is substantially lower than what you'd get with factory ammo?
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Perceived recoil is related to how fast you push the bullet out of the gun. If you're only pushing it out moderately fast, you'll only be getting moderate recoil. So the important part here is, velocity makes recoil.

As a powder charge burns, it produces gas, which produces an increasing pressure. In response to the pressure behind it, the bullet accelerates. As the bullet moves down the barrel (at an increasing rate) the volume behind it increases, which tends to reduce the pressure. To further add to to the spice of it all, the burning rate of the powder varies with the temperature and pressure of the combustion chamber. All these factors are interrelated, and their interactions are usually quite complicated. In the end what is observed is that pressure rises to some peak value, and then falls off, and all along the way the bullet accelerates (at a varying rate) and travels down the barrel (at an ever-increasing rate).

If the peak pressure reached is too high, then bad things happen - anywhere from damaged brass or stuck cases, to a blown-up gun, depending on just how high the peak pressure was.

So to answer your question - if you load a comparatively small amount of a very-quick burning powder, it is possible for excessive pressures to be generated, while only producing modest velocities. So you can damage your brass or you gun, even though the recoil that is produced by the overpressure rounds is only moderate.
 
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