Discontinued WC852 (H450)

B

bearhunter

CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Uber Super GunNutz
Rating - 100%
178   0   0
Location
okanogan
Today I got a call from a fellow I haven't seen for close to a decade. Nice guy, moved to find work which paid him a wage he could live on, save some money for a rainy day and feed his family well, etc.

Being a family man with 6 children, two from his deceased first wife and four that came as a package with his second wife, pennies are tight.

His father in law passed away a few months ago and he was an avid hunter/reloader. My friend inherited his three firearms, 22rf bolt action, 12 ga SXS, and a Husky chambered for 30-06.

In the legacy were a few part cans of H4831, several full and part boxes of bullets, as well as 1500 LR primers, along with an RCBS Jr press and set of dies.

The oddity was two boxes of WC852 (H450) from Higginson's or Ammomart back in the day.

When Tom bought this powder, there were TWO different lots. One was faster than the other, but the fast lot was all shipped to the US, except for those of us developing the load tables, for the different powders Tom Higginson chose to keep here in Canada, to sell to handloaders.

This particular powder was "commercial surplus overrun" used specifically for heavy bullets in 30-06 cartridges from 165-180 grains.

It's a "Ball" type single base propellant very similar to Win 760 in appearance but depending on lot # burn rates ranged between H380 and RL22

Most of what Tom kept in Canada burns right on H450 but it's a 2% faster than RL19. Imagine IMR4831 in ball form. Very useful powder in a wide range of cartridges.

H450 was also a "ball powder" and that just makes it all so much easier.

Even though I'm no longer purchasing powder, unless it's part of a trade or an estate sale, these NON CANNISTER GRADE "proprietary" powders seem to show up quite regularly.

Many on this site bought a lot of powder from "Ammomart" back in the day and a lot of it was never used, mostly because the shooters purchasing it didn't want to experiment within the parameters of the load tables printed out by the repackager Tom Higginson.

That's really to bad, because if you were lucky enough to be able to purchase a large lot of any or several of these very good and very cheap powders, you could do things with your handloads that were only possible for commercial cartridge companies to achieve with "premium" ammunition at "premium prices"

One such powder was WC852.

Once a few of us deduced it's real burn rate, we had to go back through our decades old reloading manuals to find decent starting loads for WC852.

We all agreed that lot #ABCK was a modern remake of H450, but with temperature stabilizing coatings. The other lot we deemed to be H380.

This can all be very confusing if you aren't prepared to do some research and work up handloads very carefully.

There were at least a dozen different lots of WC852, most of it in the US, but much of it managed to get into Canada in quantity.

In this case I was able to help out my friend with useful loads, but if he the box of powder he has had been marked as a different lot, I would have told him to start with H380 or even BLC2 loads and keep adding powder until pressure signs showed or velocities and accuracy were within his parameters.

I'm posting this because with the dearth of available powders over the past 4 years, and the rising costs, people are getting desperate and if they find these surplus powders, are not doing enough due diligence, before making up their reloads.

Be careful with these powders. What you don't know can hurt you or if you're lucky maybe only damage your firearms.
 
Used some of this powder back in the day. H-450 is the best all around powder in my 270 Weatherby with 130/150 gr bullets. I still have appx 4 lbs from " Ammo Mart". The problem with the original H-450 and one of the main reasons for discontinuing the powder was the large difference in lot to lot variation .. Going from one lot to another in my 270 Weath there was a 5 gr difference.
 
Many powders of days gone bye were the exact same but known bye different monikers. Fairly common knowledge that WW760 and H414 were ballistic twins as well as WW780 and H450. Many shotgun powders are the same as well. If your not sure about a gun powder, use it to start a bonfire. Handloading can be dangerous if all the variables are not known. Guessing what a powder or the burn rate, is like playing Russian roulette. I had great results in a model 700 270 Win with H450 and 140 Ballistic tips as well as 150 Grand Slams 58.0 grains which was max and ran at over 3000 fps. Moose dont like the 150 Grand Slams
 
bearhunter said:
Today I got a call from a fellow I haven't seen for close to a decade. Nice guy, moved to find work which paid him a wage he could live on, save some money for a rainy day and feed his family well, etc.

Being a family man with 6 children, two from his deceased first wife and four that came as a package with his second wife, pennies are tight.

His father in law passed away a few months ago and he was an avid hunter/reloader. My friend inherited his three firearms, 22rf bolt action, 12 ga SXS, and a Husky chambered for 30-06.

In the legacy were a few part cans of H4831, several full and part boxes of bullets, as well as 1500 LR primers, along with an RCBS Jr press and set of dies.

The oddity was two boxes of WC852 (H450) from Higginson's or Ammomart back in the day.

When Tom bought this powder, there were TWO different lots. One was faster than the other, but the fast lot was all shipped to the US, except for those of us developing the load tables, for the different powders Tom Higginson chose to keep here in Canada, to sell to handloaders.

This particular powder was "commercial surplus overrun" used specifically for heavy bullets in 30-06 cartridges from 165-180 grains.

It's a "Ball" type single base propellant very similar to Win 760 in appearance but depending on lot # burn rates ranged between H380 and RL22

Most of what Tom kept in Canada burns right on H450 but it's a 2% faster than RL19. Imagine IMR4831 in ball form. Very useful powder in a wide range of cartridges.

H450 was also a "ball powder" and that just makes it all so much easier.

Even though I'm no longer purchasing powder, unless it's part of a trade or an estate sale, these NON CANNISTER GRADE "proprietary" powders seem to show up quite regularly.

Many on this site bought a lot of powder from "Ammomart" back in the day and a lot of it was never used, mostly because the shooters purchasing it didn't want to experiment within the parameters of the load tables printed out by the repackager Tom Higginson.

That's really to bad, because if you were lucky enough to be able to purchase a large lot of any or several of these very good and very cheap powders, you could do things with your handloads that were only possible for commercial cartridge companies to achieve with "premium" ammunition at "premium prices"

One such powder was WC852.

Once a few of us deduced it's real burn rate, we had to go back through our decades old reloading manuals to find decent starting loads for WC852.

We all agreed that lot #ABCK was a modern remake of H450, but with temperature stabilizing coatings. The other lot we deemed to be H380.

This can all be very confusing if you aren't prepared to do some research and work up handloads very carefully.

There were at least a dozen different lots of WC852, most of it in the US, but much of it managed to get into Canada in quantity.

In this case I was able to help out my friend with useful loads, but if he the box of powder he has had been marked as a different lot, I would have told him to start with H380 or even BLC2 loads and keep adding powder until pressure signs showed or velocities and accuracy were within his parameters.

I'm posting this because with the dearth of available powders over the past 4 years, and the rising costs, people are getting desperate and if they find these surplus powders, are not doing enough due diligence, before making up their reloads.

Be careful with these powders. What you don't know can hurt you or if you're lucky maybe only damage your firearms.
Click to expand...
I burned through around 16 pounds of that I bought from GI Brass back in the day. Still have half a 5 pound jug left. Meters well, works well. I'd buy more if I could find it. - dan
 
Longstud, I agree with "if you're not sure of a powder, burn it" but only if the quantity is a couple of pounds.

I've done a lot of load development with all sorts of "unknown" powders, some without spec sheets or burn rates.

Most of them already came with an "assumed" burn rate and I can attest, some of them were totally off what was indicated.

There used to be a lot of "surplus" ammunition offered as "components only" but it was up to the purchaser to pull it apart and decide which components were useful or scrap.

Norwegian and Finn 6.5x55 was one of the first such shipments I purchased as "components only" It was a gold mine of powder/160 gr round nose bullets and a Bofors powder listed as #44 on the paper and a suggested burn rate similar to "3031" It was just 1% slower and 3031 loads were interchangeable.

The bullets were very easy to pull, and I pulled over 100K. I sold the cases, which had Berdan primers of questionable quality. The brass netted more than I paid for the entire shipment. I kept 10k of the bullets and sold the rest. The powder, this was sixty years ago, was very sought after and I kept about 50 pounds of it for my own use, to reload the pulled bullets I kept. There were only two manufacturers making the 6.5x55 at the time, which were available by snail mail in Canada. Norma and Dominion. The rifles, were plentiful and cheap, all versions, from carbines to standard, long rifles and semi autos.

By the time the next batch of surplus powder came up, it was just powder, and it was in the US. 4831 @ 15 cents/pound, if you bought 1000 pounds. It came in 50 pound, pressed paper drums, with a loose white paper wrap and large 4831 numbers and a lot number, date of manufacture, and manufacturer, stenciled on the side.

This stuff was a gold mine for me. I made three trips, picking up 1000 pounds twice and 1200 pounds on the third trip, thrown in as a bonus from Hogdon. Most of that powder was presold before I made arrangements to pick it up. Even back then, there was a lot of paperwork to fill out, as every state and county had different regulations. Hogdon's was very helpful with all of it, and as long as I stay on the Interstate routes, never a problem. The people at the border never batted an eyelash, other than to look at the drums and confirm the tar sealant on the coverings hadn't been broken.

Even though those powders were all stenciled "4831" the burn rates between lots was significant enough for Mr. Lever to add cautionary tags on the repackaged sales. Lever would purchase about 75% of the powder, which covered all of my costs with a bit of a bonus.

Surplus powders, depending on what they were being loaded in, for commercial or martial use were often "proprietary" for the purpose and it was always a gamble, that the powder would be useful or deteriorated beyond use while in storage for thirty years.

About 15 years ago, I purchased some component quality ammo from SFRC, a banner advertiser. The ammo was made in Spain, for their CETME rifles, identical dimensionally to 7.62 Nato. That's all that was the same. The primers were Berdan type but slightly smaller than standard and the powder was a "flake" type. The bullets weighed 122gr, had an exposed lead core and a ballistic plastic insert under the nose.

I've used that powder for everything from 45 Colt, 357 Magnum to 45-70 and mostly in the 7.62x39 where it really shines with 125-150 gr bullets.

There was close to 45 pounds of that powder and I didn't want to take a chance selling any of it without more information. I've got about ten pounds left and it will last as long as I will be shooting, as it's only used in a bolt action.
 
I burned through a large quantity of that WC852 [H450 burn rate] with great success.
My 30-06 loved it, as did the 270 with 140 grain Partitions. Sadly, all gone now. :( Dave.
 
Mine will all be gone in a few years, and I won't be that far behind it.

Dave, Eagleye, like you I'm getting long in the tooth and there are a lot of things I will never be able to do again, even if I were willing to pay for it.

I'm still enjoying that Husky 8x57 I picked up from you several years ago and it loves WC852 with heavy bullets. I get the best velocities with 196 grain bullets with that powder than any other I've used. Just slightly over 2700fps from a 22in bbl and moa accuracy is good for anything in North America.

I will be sad to move that rifle along, because likely whomever gets it, won't appreciate it's capabilities and it will be used as a "donor for a project"

That's OK though. We've been there, done that ourselves.

Last week I spoke with a fellow who distributes firearms related supplies, including primers, powder, projectiles etc.

He and the people he works for are in limbo as to when supplies will be available again, to the public, in decent quantities.

He told me "surplus powders" are only rarely available any more, to his knowledge, and they may dry up completely.

Regulations for manufacturers have changed as well as circumstances with finances. When powder and primers are ordered, they have to be much more careful about only acquiring as much as needed, without overruns if possible.

On top of it, they don't want to keep any in storage for insurance reasons, and it's the same with loaded ammunition.

The days of making large runs of ammunition, which will last a few or more years are over.

I suspect this will bring about the demise of several cartridges we once thought would always be on the shelves.

Maybe a few offshore manufacturers will keep up the good work of supply limited quantities of hard to find components, but IMHO the cost of manufacturing, including cost of materials and manpower, equipment maintenance, distribution, will put them out of business sooner, rather than later.
 
jamesharrison, nothing sad about it at all, other than you folks won't be able to get anymore H450, but H100V and N550 are very similar and maybe even better, because they are so consistent from lot to lot.

As for our time coming to an end, no big deal, unless a person doesn't get the chance to experience as much as they can. There is always more to experience than we have allotted time for, so it's always interesting at the very least, even if it's sometimes sad ;-)
 
I still have a good load of WC735 from Higginsons, not as long ago as the WC852, miss those $7/lb deals man, those were a steal.
It's a little faster then H335, but not much. Good for quick loading a pile of 223 plinking, couple cartridges it shines in, 7.62x39 and 30-30, 8x57, always seems to perform better at lower pressure, never got it to impress me at higher pressures for some odd reason, ES just goes all over the place.
 
I certainly miss those days of ole Thomas Higgenson. He was very knowledgeable and a great man to deal with. He was never in a rush to get off the phone. Still taking orders as his health continued to decline. I’ve never purchased powder in 50 lbs kegs though like some of you lucky folks. Certainly have used up lots of his surplus powder including WC735 (mostly from Andrew after he took over) and am down to my last 10 lbs. It was great to be able to purchase 21 lbs and qualify for free shipping/haz mat. He’d throw in some powder for free to try out for him. Those were certainly the good old days. It was nice to be able to buy components in bulk and for very reasonable prices. Only wish I had stockpiled more bt money was tight back then.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom