Do 1-4 and 1-6 power scopes render scout scopes obsolete?

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Astute Observer

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Hey all - I have a question that straddles the technical and philosophical;

Have 1-4 or 1-6 power tactical type scopes rendered the scout scope and scout rifle concept obsolete?

I ask because I've played with both 1-4 scopes, and low power scout scopes. Col Cooper's idea was that the scout scope would allow fast target acquisition at close range, a broad field of view, but then enough magnification to deliver accurate shots beyond a couple hundred yards. But I find that the 1-4 power scopes do the same thing - and switching magnification is fairly easy if you have a throw lever on your scope. With the 1 power, keeping both eyes open offers a near absolute field of view. With the scope mounted closer over the action versus the mid-barrel, I find the weight better distributed too.

I'm new to shooting, so I don't know the history… Did 1-4 or 1-6 power scopes exist when Col Cooper decided to mount a long eye relief, fixed low power scope on a rifle? With today's technology, is the notion of a long eye relief scout-scope now redundant? Can a 1-4 or 1-6 power scope serve well on a scout rifle?

I have a Ruger Gunsite Scout with the XS rail, and right now, I'm torn between getting a scout scope or a 1-4 power scope with a traditional length of eye relief...

Thanks for your thoughts all,

AO
 
That was only part of the idea behind scout scopes. Another part, which is very important to the scout idea, is to keep the action cleared so that stripper clips can be used to load the rifle. Most people will just say "Oh I just carry more magazines." Or "I just single-feed to top up the magazine." Both are valid points, but they don't address the fact that the scout idea is to not be carrying multiple magazines, because stripper clips are lighter and take up less space. Those points are generally taking the scout ideal and putting it into a different role where you can easily lay out your extra gear in your vehicle or on the bench at the range.

My personal opinion is that right now the scout concept is at about 1948, because the industry switched to autoloading rifles and these ideals got left behind. Advancements in metallurgy, polymers, ergonomics, and overall design have resulted in equipment that is lighter, stronger, and smaller. Optics have come several orders of magnitude more refined. That in turn has lowered the appeal of stripper clips and iron sights. The industry's focus on the AR15 platform has meant that scout scopes, as a choice for general issue, have been left behind. They still serve a purpose, but they are more of a niche market now due to the overwhelming dominance of the AR and similar things.

Also, don't forward mounted optics work better with night vision?
 
Definately a niche, but I love my (currently model) Savage Scout. If i had one complaint, is lack of scope selection, only Burris and Hi-lux make a variable power scout scope (Leupold dropped theirs), I have the Burris 2-7 on mine and i wish it had a slightly thicker reticle and a bit better light gathering. Does take a bit to get used to, but 300 yard shots are no problem (deer in the freezer will attest), and getting on target fast on low power is easy.
 
Where did you find your Burris 2-7? I am shopping for a scout scope and can't seem to source that on here in Canada.
 
I'm absolutely amazed that no mainstream optics manufacturers have picked up on the utility of a 1-4 variable power, light, long-eye relief, illuminated scope. That would be the cat's derrierre for a scout rifle, hitting all the benefits of a 1x power tactical scope, with the advantages of a scout scope whenever you want it.

Apparently there is a Chinese scope that's both long eye relief, and 1-4 power. IJK. http://www.ijksales.com/pistol_scout_scopes.htm

But I'm hesitant to try something like that... Even the website looks sketchy.
 
Woohoo! Finally back at a keyboard!

I love variable power scopes. I feel like 1-4s and 1-6s cover everything I could want out of my rifles. Close range, long range, with substantial eye relief and no-nonsense reticles.

But: I think people build Cooper's Scout Rifles in the same way someone builds a WWII style Garand, or a Vietnam era M14, or a Desert Storm style AR-15. It's about re-creating a platform from a particular point in time that you find interesting.

Additionally, I think there will always been a role for scout scopes as long as we have auto-loaders with an exposed action. On an SKS, or M14, or even a Vz58 and AKM, there is a legitimate role for scout scopes ahead of a moving action.

Personally I love the idea of a fixed power scout scope on a mauser style rifle. Like Stevebot said: stripper clips are a serious consideration. If gives you the rifle as a fixed, functional platform. You're not necessarily screwing around with turrets, mags, etc.

The core concept of a scout rifle still requires a scout scope to me: carry-able but capable of first round hits at several hundred yards distant.
 
Stevebot-7 said:
That was only part of the idea behind scout scopes. Another part, which is very important to the scout idea, is to keep the action cleared so that stripper clips can be used to load the rifle. Most people will just say "Oh I just carry more magazines." Or "I just single-feed to top up the magazine." Both are valid points, but they don't address the fact that the scout idea is to not be carrying multiple magazines, because stripper clips are lighter and take up less space. Those points are generally taking the scout ideal and putting it into a different role where you can easily lay out your extra gear in your vehicle or on the bench at the range.

My personal opinion is that right now the scout concept is at about 1948, because the industry switched to autoloading rifles and these ideals got left behind. Advancements in metallurgy, polymers, ergonomics, and overall design have resulted in equipment that is lighter, stronger, and smaller. Optics have come several orders of magnitude more refined. That in turn has lowered the appeal of stripper clips and iron sights. The industry's focus on the AR15 platform has meant that scout scopes, as a choice for general issue, have been left behind. They still serve a purpose, but they are more of a niche market now due to the overwhelming dominance of the AR and similar things.

Also, don't forward mounted optics work better with night vision?
Click to expand...

I would definitely agree with this statement.

With the options available these days, the "Scout" rifle concept is really dead in the water... I've tried it before, and while fun for bolt actions with the ability to load with chargers, it's just not a practical choice when you consider what is available these days.

Honestly, the Spanish FR8 is one of my favorite choices for a Scout rifle, no need for optics as it has rear receiver mounted, adjustable for distance, HK Style, Diopter sights.

Other than that, a bolt action or semi auto with detachable mags and a good 1-4/1-6 mounted scope is my preference.

Though, I still love the looks of the K98 with a ZF41, even if it is only a 1.5 power optic.. :)

G1021-2.jpg
 
The forward mount of a scout scope not only allows for the use of stripper clips, but also frees up the action to be grasped more comfortably for carrying purposes. The action is normally closer to the balancing point of the rifle.
 
Scout scopes are a niche, but part of it that the 1-4 and 1-6 power scopes can not replace is the ability to use stripper clips.

My personal preference is by far the 1-6 scope though.
 
Interesting - definitely hadn't thought of the stripper clips and access to the action. Seems reasonable! Honestly, if I could find a 1-4 scout scope or a 1-6 scout scope, I'd be all over it like stink on a wet dog. But as it is, I'm still facing a tough choice between a tactical 1-4 or 1-6 optic and a scout scope.

What about a red point with a magnifier? That might meet both requirements as well, no?
 
A red dot with a magnifier might not be a bad choice. You need to have the magnifier closer to your eye similar to a scope, but when the magnifier is flipped to the side (if you go with that type of mount) your red dot would be far enough ahead to be similar to the whole scout concept. The only downside IMO is when you use a magnifier you of course magnify the size of the reticle/dot as well. Depending on the size of dot/reticle in your choice of sight along with the magnification you chose for your magnifier you could be increasing the size of the dot/reticle quite a bit. This wouldn't lend itself well to precision at longer ranges. It all depends on the level of accuracy you want to achieve and at what distance.
 
I've ordered a Leupold FXII IER for my '94 but have not received it yet so time will tell, but;
-Certain actions demand a forward mounted scope and nothing can change that so there will always be a limited need for IER scopes.
-1to4 would be a nice option in an IER but from what I've read on IER scopes is the higher the magnification the worse it works (no personal experience-just what I've read on here).
-I think a fixed 2X (ish) is fine for the scout application (fast snap shots), I had a M1D with the original scope that was a fixed 2.5 (memory...?) and it worked fine.
-Other than CQB or other such tactical games I don't see the need for 1X, a great floor to me would be 2X. Most of my shots away from the bench are usually at 4 or 5X, rarely higher...
It'll be interesting if my thoughts change after it's mounted and I get some field time.
 
Astute Observer said:
I'm absolutely amazed that no mainstream optics manufacturers have picked up on the utility of a 1-4 variable power, light, long-eye relief, illuminated scope. That would be the cat's derrierre for a scout rifle, hitting all the benefits of a 1x power tactical scope, with the advantages of a scout scope whenever you want it.

Apparently there is a Chinese scope that's both long eye relief, and 1-4 power. IJK. http://www.ijksales.com/pistol_scout_scopes.htm

But I'm hesitant to try something like that... Even the website looks sketchy.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Make it a 1-6 and I'd buy 4.
 
I have the Burris 2-7 on my M14 shorty on an Ultimak rail. I prefer the scout config in this application since the action is set up for stripper clips and the rear sight is so tall that mounting a conventional scope necessitates drilling the stock for a riser, which I didn't want to do. My scope has the ballistic reticle and I worked up a load that matches the ticks out to 500yds. On my Ruger GSR, on the other hand, I went with a 2.5-10 Vortex PST FFP. I find I can acquire targets as fast or faster than with the scout on the M14. I have a Vortex 1-4 PST on my AR, and a Leupold Mark AR 1.5-4 on my Mini 30. I find both of these faster to use than the scout as well. So yeah, I would agree with the OP that modern optics have superceded the scout concept in most applications.
 
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