Either in 45-70 or 450 Marlin does a 350 gr 0.458 bullet @ 2350 fps and giving almost 4300 pounds of energy would be adequate for African hunting ( all species ). Going on a African safari is one of the thing i want to do in the next couple of year, so it is with that in mind, i bought this Steyr Big bore 450 Marlin, what does who have experience with african hunt think... Cheers. JP.
Do 350 gr 0.458 bullet @ 2350 fps qualify for African.....
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NolanOsborn
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- British Columbia
http://the4570inafrica.########.com/
IMHO....To use the 45/70 for the largest of animals, you would need a heavy bullet with a very large MEPLAT, prolly a fairly hard cast bullet. The bullet that you are enquiring about will prolly not give you the penetration that you need on thick skinned game. The numbers look good but will it stand-up to a couple of inches of mud and hide before starting to breakup? I believe that the light, high speed bullet would work on plains game(thin skinned), giving good trajectory, but not the big buffs,and others.
check out the accuratereloading.com forums for actual experiences from real african pro hunters and guides. The consensus is that using a 45-70 in africa for dangerous game is a stunt, and you might have a hard time finding someone willing to guide you if that's what you're packing.
NolanOsborn thank for the great litterature, that mean i will have the pleasure of buying another rifle that is really suited for the African hunt, maybe a 458 Win mag and i will try to order those 540 gr melplat Hammerhead to see if i can push them at 1650 out of my 450 big bore, very interresting stuff to do ahead... Cheers. JP.
With TSX's for softs and CEB#13's for solids it would work. According to the people who have shot thousands of rounds of bigbore more than me. Check out the terminal ballistics thread on Accurate Reloading forum. Takes about 5 days to wade through it all.
Stole this photo fair and square. Guide gun with 400gr bullets getting 40+ inches penetration. My 510 wells with woodliegh solids was only24" or there abouts. Bullet design is more important than weight. The 350gr size would work great also. Still digging for some data for that.
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/Bullet%20Album/DSC08503.jpg
http://i383.photobucket.com/albums/oo276/michael458photos/Bullet%20Album/DSC08503.jpg
The fellow that did that testing also has his oar in the water with the CEB bullet design and marketing. IIRC none of the other 45/70 loads were even remotely similar in performance to the proven big bore combos.
Interestingly, the greatest penetration he recorded was with a 9.3x62 launching 320gr Woodleigh Solids - with over 60" of straight line penetration, through the wood backstop and buried in the concrete behind said backstop.
Google CEB and ask them if they can get them up here.
I know the tester is part designer of the bullet in question but he is willing to try anything you send him. If your favorite bullet isnt there then send him a box and he will try them out. A lot of what they discovered in the teating was figured out at least in part by the handgun and cast bullet guys years ago. The design looks pretty simple. Reports from africa are coming back now too. All i have seen look very good.
I know the tester is part designer of the bullet in question but he is willing to try anything you send him. If your favorite bullet isnt there then send him a box and he will try them out. A lot of what they discovered in the teating was figured out at least in part by the handgun and cast bullet guys years ago. The design looks pretty simple. Reports from africa are coming back now too. All i have seen look very good.
Toebako - this should be your avatar as it is always what I think of when I see your posts! 
Do you buy into the wide, flat meplat is best view? Barnes has now returned to the round-nose solid. Take a gander:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/banded-solids/
And what about Woodleigh's new solid, has that been tested in the same media yet?
At any rate, I found it interesting that the old school roundnose solid in the 9.3x62 had the best straight-line penetration.
Do you buy into the wide, flat meplat is best view? Barnes has now returned to the round-nose solid. Take a gander:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/banded-solids/
And what about Woodleigh's new solid, has that been tested in the same media yet?
At any rate, I found it interesting that the old school roundnose solid in the 9.3x62 had the best straight-line penetration.
Africa
This cartridge is not adequate for the big boys over there and I highly doubt you would find a PH that would hunt you with it and it also is not legal in the 7 countries I've hunted, although it is probably in the grey zone because it is
.458. I've taken almost all the species in southern Africa and I would most emphatically advise against it for buff, hippo, rhino and DEFINATELY not adequate fot elephant.
This cartridge is not adequate for the big boys over there and I highly doubt you would find a PH that would hunt you with it and it also is not legal in the 7 countries I've hunted, although it is probably in the grey zone because it is
.458. I've taken almost all the species in southern Africa and I would most emphatically advise against it for buff, hippo, rhino and DEFINATELY not adequate fot elephant.
Nice pic. What is it. I do buy into the flat nose does more damage and penetrates better. Barnes made an awesome solid and went back to round because they introduced their own ammo and wanted no issues with feeding in common off the shelf guns. IMHO. It set back solid development doing this.
Toebako - this should be your avatar as it is always what I think of when I see your posts!
Do you buy into the wide, flat meplat is best view? Barnes has now returned to the round-nose solid. Take a gander:
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/banded-solids/
And what about Woodleigh's new solid, has that been tested in the same media yet?
At any rate, I found it interesting that the old school roundnose solid in the 9.3x62 had the best straight-line penetration.
Paul Jacobsen
Member
No expert by any stretch...but the 458 calibers penetrated best when they were in the 1400-1600 fps range, once velocities start getting up there the bullet sheds weight too fast and lacks penetration. The 500 grain bullet is where you want to be for penetration. The 350 doesn't have the weight to give it momentum. The only reason the US military dropped the weight of the 45-70 to 400 grain bullet was that it's recoil was too stout in the light carbines the calvary used. They found the 500 grain far out penetrated anything they used.
Here is an example of penetration experienced first hand by me:
My favorite combo for N America has been a 35 Whelen with a 250 grain bullet at 2543 fps. deepest penetration I ever got was on a moose. Hit him in the right ham as he spun, bullet ranged completely through the animal and exited the sternum leaving a fist sized hole, he simply tipped over dead. Big bullets at moderate velocity penetrate. I have hunted with a lot of friends who used to make fun of my slowish bullets, until I gave an analogy. A ping pong ball and golf ball are roughly the same size. So if I drive a ping pong ball into the small of your back at 1000 fps, it's going to sting and leave red mark. If I drive a golf ball at 400 fps, it will drop you to your knees, as you blow snot bubbles out your nose. Momentum is a by product of weight.
Interesting article here.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html
Here is the article I was looking for, have a read VERY interesting reading of bullet weight and relative penetration. You won't believe it.
http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html
Here is an example of penetration experienced first hand by me:
My favorite combo for N America has been a 35 Whelen with a 250 grain bullet at 2543 fps. deepest penetration I ever got was on a moose. Hit him in the right ham as he spun, bullet ranged completely through the animal and exited the sternum leaving a fist sized hole, he simply tipped over dead. Big bullets at moderate velocity penetrate. I have hunted with a lot of friends who used to make fun of my slowish bullets, until I gave an analogy. A ping pong ball and golf ball are roughly the same size. So if I drive a ping pong ball into the small of your back at 1000 fps, it's going to sting and leave red mark. If I drive a golf ball at 400 fps, it will drop you to your knees, as you blow snot bubbles out your nose. Momentum is a by product of weight.
Interesting article here.
http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.html
Here is the article I was looking for, have a read VERY interesting reading of bullet weight and relative penetration. You won't believe it.
http://home.earthlink.net/~sharpsshtr/CritterPhotos/SandyHook/SandyHook.html
- Location
- AB foothills
If you mention your "Steyr Big Bore 450M" one more time, I am going to drive out there and smash it into little pieces
J/K
