Do I really have to Work Up a Load?

sulisa

sulisa

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Hi guys,

I'm reloading for a couple calibres, but let's look at .223 for a second. Using the minimum Varget weight, I am able to get fairly decent grouping at 100 yards. This conservative load is quite far from the offered maximum powder weight and maximum speed.

So with the bare basic load, *should* I start cranking it up slowly? Other than probably minor changes in ballistics (maybe 7.5" drop at 300 yards instead of 8.0"), is there any advantage to it?

When I load 9mm for IPSC, the challenge is to load as close to the minimum Power Factor as possible - anything more is wasteful, and has side effects (recoil, possible bullet instability, etc)

If your thoughts are to grow the powder load - should I stop when I see deformation of the case, problems with primer, etc, or should I stop at the Max speed listed in the recipe? (I can't test for pressure).

As you can see, this is a really dumb question, but it's been sitting on a dusty shelf in the back of my mind for some time now :)

Any thoughts appreciated.

Oh! By the way, does anyone have access to the original SAAMI spec for case length? I've got some .308 cases that are 7-thousandths longer than one source tells me they should be. If I had the actual spec, I could determine when to trim, rather than trim all the time (neck sizing die and full-length, depending on if it's my fired brass or new to me).

Thanks guys!
 
YOu dont' need a maximum load unless you want it. Depends what you want to do....

Work up to max powder charges in your manual, and keep an eye on the chrono. If you get high speed before max powder charge, you can stop there.
 
Working up loads

One of the reasons for working up loads is that going up or down .1 grain can tighten up groups. For example 49 vs. 48 gr. of H380 in my 308 makes 1/2 in. difference in groups.
 
"...Do I really have to Work Up a Load?..." You do if you want the most accurate load.
"...should I stop at the Max speed..." Max powder charge given in your manual. The most accurate load may or may not be close to max.
"...dont' need a maximum load..." Working up a load has nothing to do with max loads or velocity. It's about finding the load a particular firearm shoots best.
"...going up or down .1 grain..." Yep. As little as a tenth can do it. As daft as it sounds.
"...determine when to trim..." Max .223 case length is 1.760"(that is the SAAMI spec). Trim when your cases get to that. Trim-to is 1.750". You usually don't have to trim every time. Don't forget to chamfer and deburr when you do trim.
 
Kinda the whole point to reloading.......maximazing the potential of your firearm. If your not trying to achieve that goal save your time and money and find factory ammo your rifle likes and be done with it.
Lots of time you will achieve better accuracy at lower velocities and sometimes you need to push it to the max and then some to get the best results..depends on the gun. To me thats the whole science of reloading, tayloring the load to the gun for the best results.
 
drummerboy73 said:
Kinda the whole point to reloading.......maximazing the potential of your firearm.
Click to expand...

223 is cheap to start with, so the whole point to reloading it is as drummerboy73 says...... maxamizing the potential of your firearm.

Although it is a definate advantage in favor of reloading, i'd like to point out the reason i do it is primarily for cost saving. some of the rounds i shoot are very expensive to buy factory loads for.
444marlin for example is $56 per 20 tax inc. but i can make 20 for about $14 with jacketed bullets that are no longer commercially available as loaded ammo.
It allows me to shoot guns i would otherwise not be able to afford to become proficient with.
 
If your thoughts are to grow the powder load - should I stop when I see deformation of the case, problems with primer, etc, or should I stop at the Max speed listed in the recipe? (I can't test for pressure).
Click to expand...

Do not rely on velocity to determine a safe load.Some rifles produce more velocity with a given chamber pressure than others,so you might be producing excessive chamber pressures before reaching the velocity posted in the manual.
 
Well - As Gatehouse stated above - it depends on what you want to do... Say you are working up a hunting load for a specific rifle and you want to use a specific premium bullet. The major tuning parameters left are powder, and charge. In my experience, one powder will tend to dominate over another regardless of charge, so its a more important parameter.
Moreover, if you allow yourself the liberty of changing bullet weights, then you really have the best opportunity to find a tuned load. I tend to reload for several rifles simultaneously, typically in milsurp calibers. I keep the loads to close to the minimum for peace of mind. I'll load up trial loads with varying bullet weights. From experience, I tend to know which powder best suits the bullet weight. After the first trial, I may elect to fine tune a load for a particular rifle - at which point I'll play with powder type and/or charge weight as desired.
I've evolved this method over the years. Bear in mind that I'm principally a recreational shooter that likes to hunt and punch paper at 100y, so ultimate precision is not my goal. However, I can get most of my rifles to shoot +/-1 moa without exhaustive load trials.
 
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Great thoughts guys, thanks!

I think I will experiment a bit. I'll build a couple of strings, and see what happens. While my first load works fine, you're right that I'd be missing an opportunity if I didn't run the other combinations to see if I could get a tighter grouping.

I have a few different bullet types, from Hornady V-Max down to plain old FMJs, and I have two very different rifles in .223 (and others in .308), so it should be a fun few weeks coming up (lots of loads to test)

Thanks
 
When working up to an accurate load in any given rifle-caliber combo there are many variables. This might seem just common sense but I would get a good old high school scribler and write down every thing when load testing. From brass type,powder-primer,bullet etc. Even wind and range conditions including temperature and whether it was sunny or cloudy. Leave nothing to memory. I know guys who write load info on the shell box but this can get lost or confusing when re-using the boxes for reloads. I have loaded up half a dozen load combos and sometimes had to cut short my testing for one reason or another. You always need a good reference to duplicate a good load. I have a few rifles in the same caliber and what was accurate in one sometimes was only so-so for the other. When my sons were starting to hunt deer we all used .270 bolt rifles. Two were rebarreled mausers and one was a Savage 110. You had to watch the over-all case length on the Savage but it shot better with a little more powder charge. Keep good loading records and you can eliminate the guess work when duplicating a good load.
 
i'd say that if every time you miss what you are shooting at you can say that it was your fault, then the load is good enough. personally, i doubt "fairly decent" is good enough though.

a piece of paper can't tell the difference of 200 fps if you just want more velocity.
 
A very good point on keeping a reloading log. I've kept one for the past 17 yrs-the best book I ever wrote. Personal bias is to accuracy, not velocity. Many times the best accuracy is found at less than the max load, so it pays to work up from this point of view as well.
 
I seem to have had the right paperwork, but I'll pay a bit more attention to it. For starters, I have Avery Full Sheet labels, onto which I print a page of "Batch Labels":

- Batch Number and date,
- Primer type and Lot,
- Powder type, quantity, and lot,
- Bullet type, weight, and lot
- COAL
- Notes (brass headstamp, etc)

Also, I have a little Dollar-Store Notebook, which I dedicate one page per Batch. Here I have the same info, and can add additional info (because the label is disposable), such as deviation (COAL 2.26 +/- 0.005)

And I use the Shooting Chrony Test Record (avail from their website), printed in such a way that it fits into a page-protector binder I have (pages 4.75w x 8.0h).

After reading all these great comments and a very encouraging PM, I'm going to work up my rifle loads, starting with .223, in 0.1gr increments, between "starting' and "maximum", or until I reach the max posted velocity, or until two brass or primers come out deformed. If I benchrest through the Chrony out to a whack of paper targets at 100 yards, I should be able to see what's going on.

I wonder if I should vice the rifle down - early shots will see me "getting better", while later shots might show me "getting tired" instead of ballistics results. So first will be 20 strings of 5, with one minute between shots (to let the Stevens 200 barrel stay cool).

Anyway, I'm going to pickup a second scale this week - the Lee Safety scale might not be too bad, but a second scale will give me more confidence - and digital (like PACT or RCBS Rangemaster) will be faster than the Lee, for such a large undertaking!)

Thanks again for all the ideas!
 
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