Do Varget and RL 15 go hand in hand...

sealhunter

sealhunter

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I wondering if I am seeing something that exists or not...


I have found that while looking at various loads I am interested in, that RL 15 and Varget are are usually the top runners in velocity and often accuracy...
meaning that if say a particular load loves Varget, very close behind is RL 15,..and vice versa

Not all loads obviously, but certainly enough of the ones I have been looking at to seem to stick out...

yes...no...?
 
Was just reading Lyman 48 on this very subject and yes it would seem so! Next time we meet I shall call you Sherlock in honour of your powerful observational skilz :D

I haven't used 15 but have used Varget as my only powder for .223 (everything from 52gr to 80gr) and very successfully in .308, may try some in 7-08 and maybe but probably not in 6.5x55.
 
Redhouse said:
Was just reading Lyman 48 on this very subject and yes it would seem so! Next time we meet I shall call you Sherlock in honour of your powerful observational skilz :D

I haven't used 15 but have used Varget as my only powder for .223 (everything from 52gr to 80gr) and very successfully in .308, may try some in 7-08 and maybe but probably not in 6.5x55.
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Varget is over-rated.
 
Redhouse said:
Was just reading Lyman 48 on this very subject and yes it would seem so! Next time we meet I shall call you Sherlock in honour of your powerful observational skilz :D

I haven't used 15 but have used Varget as my only powder for .223 (everything from 52gr to 80gr) and very successfully in .308, may try some in 7-08 and maybe but probably not in 6.5x55.
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7mm-08 is what got me on this path...
 
Farlsincharge said:
slightly OT, but how does RL15 compare to varget in terms of temp stability?
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RL15 has way better temp stability. I was using Vaget in my .22-250, it seemed the loads I made in the summer didn't get the same results come the winter and vice versa.

I tried RL15 and its much more consistent.

I will also be trying H380
 
srt4u2nv said:
RL15 has way better temp stability.
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Yes, this is why people have to have 4 different powder loads for one cartridge based on the ambient temperature because it is such a Temp Stable Powder. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I shoot a fairly hot load of Varget in my 6BR from -20c up +30c with the exact same powder loads and exact same results....try that with RL15 and see what happens. A hot load in the winter will cause primer piercing etc when the temps start to get up there come spring/summer.

Varget is overrated....stay far away from it for sure......saves me from having to hunt it down when my supply starts getting low.
 
CyaN1de said:
Yes, this is why people have to have 4 different powder loads for one cartridge based on the ambient temperature because it is such a Temp Stable Powder. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I shoot a fairly hot load of Varget in my 6BR from -20c up +30c with the exact same powder loads and exact same results....try that with RL15 and see what happens. A hot load in the winter will cause primer piercing etc when the temps start to get up there come spring/summer.

Varget is overrated....stay far away from it for sure......saves me from having to hunt it down when my supply starts getting low.
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Never had any issues that you describe with RL15 in my .22-250. I shoot quite a lot to and in the same temp ranges as you as well.

Every cartridge is different I guess.

My pet peeve with Varget is you buy a LB now and get another one in a few months and your POI is off....I had to redo my loads over with each new lot of powder.

RL15 has never gave me the issues Varget has.
 
Superficial observations based on ambient air temperature are meaningless. If you think RL-15 has anywhere near the temperature stability of Varget, then you've never ran a test that's even remotely scientifically valid. The US military switched away from it to an old IMR powder (4064) due to its lack of temperature stability.

If you're POI is off, then you aren't on a barrel nodes. That's a solid indicator of a weak load that's very susceptible to small changes in components and atmospheric conditions.
 
kombayotch said:
Superficial observations based on ambient air temperature are meaningless. If you think RL-15 has anywhere near the temperature stability of Varget, then you've never ran a test that's even remotely scientifically valid. The US military switched away from it to an old IMR powder (4064) due to its lack of temperature stability.

If you're POI is off, then you aren't on a barrel nodes. That's a solid indicator of a weak load that's very susceptible to small changes in components and atmospheric conditions.
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Oh ya my load development is far from scientific but I developed a load 55gr vmax 35.5gr varget loaded in the winter. I ran out of powder in the spring. I went and bought another LB of Varget loaded up the same 35.5gr loads and my POI was off.

Switched to RL15 and haven't looked back since loads I make in the summer hit the same POI in the winter. The loads I make in the winter hit the same POI in the summer.

35.5gr of Varget in a 22-250 is not a "weak" load by a long shot.

Anyway what are your views on H380?
 
Strangely, around here, RL-15 is harder to find than Varget. I prefer RL-15 in my 308's, better accuracy and I didn't have any stability prob so far.
Right now I use both, but only because the last time I bought powder, I couldn't find RL-15 anywhere, so I got 6lbs of Varget instead. When I get my hands on a keg of RL-15, Varget will stay on the dealers shelf, I'm sure lots of Varget users will be happy to hear that ;)
 
Anything Varget can do re15 does better.

I've loaded the two powders side by side in a number of rifles and the Varget loads haven't matched the re15 in any of them.

I agree with the earlier poster that says Varget is overrated. Re15 is underrated.
 
srt4u2nv said:
My pet peeve with Varget is you buy a LB now and get another one in a few months and your POI is off....I had to redo my loads over with each new lot of powder.
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I have yet to run into this problem....I went through 2 different (mixed) lots of powder with my latest 6BR (1700+ Rounds and counting [That's 7.5lbs+ of powder at my current powder load so far]) and it shot the same with both mixed lots until the throat wore to the point that it wouldn't shoot anymore with the bullets I was using....I have recently changed bullets and using the same load of Varget as before it is once again performing beautifully.

I have heard of others getting a hotter batch of Varget and having to back the load down to get back to the node it was before......maybe I was just lucky.
 
srt4u2nv said:
Oh ya my load development is far from scientific but I developed a load 55gr vmax 35.5gr varget loaded in the winter. I ran out of powder in the spring. I went and bought another LB of Varget loaded up the same 35.5gr loads and my POI was off.

Switched to RL15 and haven't looked back since loads I make in the summer hit the same POI in the winter. The loads I make in the winter hit the same POI in the summer.

35.5gr of Varget in a 22-250 is not a "weak" load by a long shot.

Anyway what are your views on H380?
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People can tell all the field anecdotes they want, there are far too many variable changing for this information to be meaningful in any way. POI is not a solid indicator of temperature stability, velocity is. The problem is that not only your rounds are changing temperature, but so is the barrel. The atmospheric conditions are also changing, and who knows what else... slope?. If you aren't on a node (you might be for RL-15, but not for Varget), slight changes in these things can cause significant POI shifts. Plot the X-Y results of an OCW test and notice how much POI shift there can be for a single charge step when you're off the node. The charge steps simulate small changes in velocity caused by things like temperature or component changes. Loads on the OCW nodes don't experience POI shifts with small changes in velocity, and that is the whole point of OCW. If you're shooting at any distance, there should be a change in POI if atmospheric condition have changed drastically, but velocity has remained constant.

Try running a controlled test, over a chronograph. It isn't difficult and only requires 15 rounds of ammo. The way the tests works is that you soak 3 batches of ammo at hot, cold and ambient temperature for at least two hours (5 rounds of each). I use a cooler with a heating pad for hot, the freezer in the clubhouse for cold (an icebox works too), and just sit the rounds out in the open for ambient. Temperature is measured with thermocouples and/or mercury thermometers. Then, you fire them one round at a time in a round robin sequence (ambient, hot, cold, ambient, hot, cold...). You let the barrel cool in between each shot. When you fire each round, you just transfer that round from the hot/room/cold storage to the chamber and fire it through the chrono as quickly as possible. You don't want to give the rounds any time to change temperature internally due to contact with the chamber. I set the scope on the lowest magnification and just make sure I'm sending the round through the sweet spot of the chrono (no groups here). You basically want to be the Jerry Miculek of loading a boltgun and firing it through a chrono. This is best done on a short pistol range, close to the berm. Record the velocities and temperatures and plot them to a line chart. From this you can derive the change in fps per degree easily and compare different loads.

It isn't complicated and it tells you the temperature stability of a load in a single afternoon. I set this up when I arrive at the range and run the test before I leave, after doing all of my other shooting. Whole thing takes maybe 20-25 min. (including setup).
 
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