Do you weigh your brass?

bigbull said:
I segregate all my other brass, but it is only worth it if you buy brass in large lots (2 or 300 cases) otherwise don't bother. You will also have to size and trim the brass to equal length if you want accurate results in segregating the brass.
bigbull
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Sizing and trimming as well as chamfering and deburring are all standard operations BEFORE sorting.
As far as neck turning and primer pocket uniforming goes,Lapaua brass is
accurate enough in the neckes not to need turning and the proimer pockets are drilled, not punched, so there is absolutely no need for flash hole deburring or pocket uniforming.

All these steps are what I was refering to before my sorting by weight, which is not needed when using Lapua brass.....
Cat
 
One consideration to minimizing variables is to ensure you have the same brand and lot of brass. Most of us don't know what the dimensional tolerances are on manufacturing specs. so I don't think we can conclude that the case head variance is a big problem without doing dimensional checks on each lot of brass we use.

Belted magnums have the added beauty of a belt to deal and this adds an additional variable of weight. The belt is easier to measure and check for dimensional differences.

Certainly volume checks on sized same lot and prepped brass is important but not all that easy to do and it is labour intensive.

Introduction of quality digital scales has made sorting brass based on weight quick and easy and not as labour intensive as it once was with a balance beam scale:eek:

Uniform case wall thickness is the variable that is more difficult to pick up on. Benchrest shooters often measure necks to try to determine the degree of uniform case body wall thickness. Variations in excess of 0.002" in the neck was corolated to non-uniform case body wall thicknesses. As a result, the powder charge was not perfectly in alignment with the bore and the case was subject to irregular case expansion after firing, particularily in oversize chambers (the thin sections of the case will yield and expand first while the thicker sections will resist expansion). Merrill Martin a past Precision Shooter writer wrote volumes on the subject.

Another check is to check fired brass for run out. On lesser quality brass, a simple visual examination at the case head/body junction often shows irregular expansion of the casing - a bulge which often times is not present over the entire circumference (360 degrees). Section the case and you will see the bulged section is thinner.

Many variables influence the quality of brass, which makes reliable sorting a bit difficult and time consuming. Deciding which brass to use can often be made easier by looking at the results of competitions....especially if you don't have the time to sort the brass yourself. Time is money...
 
LRC, until the brass is fireformed, it is not consistent in exterior size even from the same lot. This is because brass gets bang around during shipping and distorted. Even running through a sizer doesn't help so I always COW fireform before I bother with any other steps.

If the chamber is properly cut and headspace/lock up is tight (BR tight), a fired case has no where to go (why BR rifles have brass that lasts longer then the barrels). Expansion is limited by the chamber dimensions. Any case with any bulges or irregularities indicate a poorly cut chamber or a lock up that is loose/spongy. The case indicates a hardware problem. Improper sizing can also lead to these types of problems.

From the way brass is manf, the chances of really out of whack brass isn't that high these days (why Win brass is dominating many forms of LR shooting). Of course, 'BR' prep eliminates that even further to near perfection. I don't see brass as being a huge source of inaccuracy.

The two biggest variables we don't control are the parts that make the bang happen. Yep, the powder and primer. Now that top level shooters are using real monitoring equipment, they are finding all sorts of interesting details about this.

Powders are varying huge amounts from lot to lot as are primers. In the big scheme of things, they are very small but when you are looking for single digit variances and bughole groups at 2/3 of a mile, it matters.

Read a most interesting article where a brand of match primers were shown to cause all sorts of pressure and velocity issues. The lot before was perfect, another lot was fine. That 'bad' lot almost caused this top US shooter to pitch barrels on all his rifles (thought they were worn out) if not for his measuring equipment.

Bullets are another huge variable. With different types of sorting, even match bullets are showing difference up to 'cull' 50%. Not so match after all.

So for me, I still let the paper tell the tale. If I see trends or flyers that are way off, I start to diagnose the problem. As to sorting brass, I find the best way is to sort during shooting. Any shot that is a flyer gets marked, if it throws the shot again, the brass is destroyed.

If it doesn't and other brass does, diagnose the shooter, rifle, other components. Might just be that the problem lies in the primer or powder or bullet.

That way I have eliminated all the variables and have brass/ammo as good as I can make it.

As to how I know extractor grooves aren't manf the same, simple. The brass doesn't fit the Lee hand primer shellholder the same. Some are loose, others are tight. All shoot into the same teeny tiny group. Same lot and number of firings.

I use brass from the same lot and brand. Deburr the flash hole (might look at drilling them all the same in the future depending on testing). COW fireform. Collet neck size. Trim. Chamfer necks. Load. I rarely check case volume anymore as it is rare to find a case that isn't the same volume from the same lot of brass.

Watch case runout and case hardening (anneal if needed).

Sorting during fire also allows one to use once fired brass. With a bit of sorting, it can work as well as any 'bagged' brass.

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
(why Win brass is dominating many forms of LR shooting).
Jerry
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Jerry, where is Winchester brass dominating? Thats the first I have heard and certainly very interesting. My experience has always been that domestic is not even close to the standards (dimensional, hardness) of Lapua. What the heck is Winchester doing differently and when did they start doing it? I'll have to pop over to their site and see if the info this there. If the results are there and the all their brass offerings are match grade, at least equivalent to Lapua thats great news.

Its good to see them pull up their socks...

From the circles I wonder into Lapua is #1 and Nosler maybe making some in roads....and every dog has his day
 
###, you can look at www.6mmBR.com for load info on top US 1000yd BR shooters. The Hoover family uses Win brass. Seems they know a thing or two about winning at distance. There are others.

Would seem that the 284Win brass is working well (hornady not so much). Also, 308 Win brass is also doing very well. I have used a bunch and can vouch for its excellence. In my other rifles, Rem 7RM brass is great too.

Not as common anymore but Fed Gold Medal brass is good and very durable. A bit smaller in case volume so would suspect a thicker wall brass. In 308, I beat them hard and they just keep coming back for more. Maybe why GM ammo works so well.

Overall, I have not been particularly impressed with Norma as it doesn't handle toasty pressures well (300Wby factory and norma headstamp). Best in that rifle was modified Win 300H&H and STW brass.

The 6BR/PPC is still a Lapua gig but other cals are wide open now.

Isn't Nosler brass made by Winchester?

Jerry
 
Jerry from your pm I thought Lapua had serious competition. I'm glad you cleared that up. I am familiar with the Hoover family;)

I was hoping for more results and support information, but I guess its not readily available. I'll see if I can dig up some info on this. Time will tell, the king "Lapua" may have to step aside! I think many people are recall all the bad brass by Rem/Win/Federal... more so then the occassional bad batch that Lapua may put out.

If the ppc or 220 Russian brass ever comes into bigger demand, we just might see brass head stamped by WIN in short range BR.

Its too bad you have bad experiences with Norma. I can't say I share the same experience and I do continue to use it with good results, like many other shooters.

Lets hope Winchester pulls it off and becomes consistent supplier of quality brass.
 
I really don't think Lapua is in any danger of going extinct simply because of their consistency. Yes, there have been bad batches but I would risk their QC over a commercial brand anyday. Lowering their costs would be nice.

However, if willing to take the time and tweak, just about anything can be made to work. I am disappointed at the 'cull' rate of bullets though. Just doesn't seem right to pay a premium for a match bullet, then have to sort and loose a large percentage to varying specs.

Talk about a huge waste of time and money. What are your experiences with Lapua bullets?

Wonder who will take the lead for match bullets????

Jerry
 
mysticplayer said:
I am disappointed at the 'cull' rate of bullets though. Just doesn't seem right to pay a premium for a match bullet, then have to sort and loose a large percentage to varying specs.

Talk about a huge waste of time and money. What are your experiences with Lapua bullets?

Wonder who will take the lead for match bullets????

Jerry
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Jerry - I can't comment, but as you know I have to say something... I really need to spend more time behind the guns.

I haven't ventured into picking up a Juenke machine.

When you hear about the base to ogive sorting and tubb/Sinclair tooling to trim bullets (Meplats)...where is the end to it! My God. If its not money its time.....although I was going to make a meplat trimmer....

At this point in time and from my experience, I can honestly say that I am the limiting factor or weakest link! I've seen fantastic groups with Bergers, Lapua Scenars, Barts, Genters, Fowlers and Eubers.

I haven't lived I guess because I haven't culled bullets. I have sorted them though and to be honest at that time I did some of my best shooting.
 
I have my doubts about many of the BR tweaks but it seems bullet sorting (amoung the list of new tweaks) is making groups shrink.

Used to be that 1/2MOA was national winning performance. 1000yd shooters are now routinely in the 3" to 4" range and that is up to 10rd groups. Something has to be improving...

Plus some damn fine doping.

Jerry
 
One thing to remember that shortrange and longrange are similar but different. In the shortrange game 100-200 BR most of the top shooters from what I read and see do not waste time culling bullets or brass. They use what they think are the best. Lapua brass along with custom made match bullets the likes of Bart's, Fowler, Euber, Berger, BIB, Gentner and many others. They throw there charges instead of weighing them. Can go on and on.

Where it seems to be more critical in the quality of the companents and reloading is in long range. Whether or not culling brass, uniforming pockets, deburring, or neck turning makes a difference who knows. Trimming meplats along with sorting bullets into different base to ogive lengths seems to be a big thing. I think this can turn into a whole lot of new testing. Some of you may be aware that this may be happening with the 6BR test on 6mmBR.com. Tests are starting to show that maybe the wrong powders are being used for the cartridge.

We just never know what will happen out there. We tend to want to do whatever to get the phsycological edge. I personally think that is a big part of the game. Messing with the guy next to you.

All I know is that I wish that each and every hummer barrel could be duplicated exactly the same every time!!!!!!!!


Calvin
 
When I got into my 308 I also came into a big supply of brass from work (gotta love them annual quals). I FL sized it all, trimmed, chamfered, uniformed the primer pocket, and then weighed all the brass. I used the stuff that was within +/- .5 grain (yes anal, but why not?).

Did it make a difference? I dunno. I didn't do a scientific test. But I think it made a difference, and that's really all that matters. Increased confidence in your equipment can't hurt.
 
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