Does anyone own a 12(3) converted auto Lanchester smg.
- Thread starter drm3m
- Start date
antiqueguy
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- windsor ontario
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Cocked&Locked
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- S. Ontario
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hate
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The two Lanchesters that Collectors Source has are both deactivated guns not 12(3) converted autos..
Collectors Source’s ad.
Uncommon British Lanchester SMG Mark 1*. EXC condition, with sling. Bolt moves, mag is removable. Cannot chamber a round, cannot #### and click, cannot be disassembled. Deactivated, no licence required to purchase or own.
Collectors Source’s ad.
Uncommon British Lanchester SMG Mark 1*. EXC condition, with sling. Bolt moves, mag is removable. Cannot chamber a round, cannot #### and click, cannot be disassembled. Deactivated, no licence required to purchase or own.
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The Lanchester smg shown above was manufactured by Sterling Engineering Company Ltd in 1942.
The Four Lanchester Assemblers:
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) Total production until October 1943 – 74,579.
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton .
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
Two magazines marked S.E.C.0--- for Sterling Engineering Co. Ltd.
1943 dated magazine pouch.
Pattern 1907 bayonet marked, 1907 WILKINSON.
(The wooden stock was patterned after that of the Lee-Enfield rifle, and the gun accepted the 1907-pattern bayonet, originally developed for the above-mentioned rifle.)
Cyclic Rate of Fire: 600 RPM
Cartridge--9mm parabellum
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds.
The Four Lanchester Assemblers:
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) Total production until October 1943 – 74,579.
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton .
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
Two magazines marked S.E.C.0--- for Sterling Engineering Co. Ltd.
1943 dated magazine pouch.
Pattern 1907 bayonet marked, 1907 WILKINSON.
(The wooden stock was patterned after that of the Lee-Enfield rifle, and the gun accepted the 1907-pattern bayonet, originally developed for the above-mentioned rifle.)
Cyclic Rate of Fire: 600 RPM
Cartridge--9mm parabellum
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds.
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#1bcshooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- North Of The DMZ (US border)
This gun was converted to CA in Canada.
Not an easy conversion from what I understand.
If that gun is sold to another 12.3 holder they will require it go to the RCMP firearms lab for another inspection before it will be transfered & guns have been sitting there for years waiting for approval.
#1bscshooter,
I have no idea.
I have a registration certificate for the Lanchester dated 93/03/11 and the updated certificate dated June 27 2003.
I have two 12(3)s going throught the transfer process at this time. I will see what happens.
The registration dates on those certificates are November 20 2006 and June 27 2003.
I have no idea.
I have a registration certificate for the Lanchester dated 93/03/11 and the updated certificate dated June 27 2003.
I have two 12(3)s going throught the transfer process at this time. I will see what happens.
The registration dates on those certificates are November 20 2006 and June 27 2003.
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For they that may have an interest in the WWII background of the British Lanchester smg.
When Britain went to war in 1939, there were no sub-machineguns of any sort in her Order of Battle. In fact, the armories were bare. It was not until 1940 that the British Purchasing Commission in New York was instructed to buy all the Thompson sub-machineguns that it could lay its hands on. In all, orders were placed for 300,000 Thompson sub-machineguns and a staggering 249 million rounds of .45 cal. ammunition. (100,000 never ended up in Britain but rather at the bottom at the Atlantic Ocean ,…casualties of the German U-Boats etc.)
Once the gold reserves were gone it was a case of necessity that Britain, in desperation, just had to manufacture her own sub-machinegun.
After evaluation and debate the decision to manufacture a gun that resembled the German MP28 (11) was made, …leading to the development of the British Lanchester MK.1 sub-machinegun.
The Four Lanchester Assemblers:
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) 58,990
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton.
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
Total official production until October 1943 – 79,790.
Background;
The Lanchester was a submachine gun used by the British during World War II. In 1940, with the Dunkirk evacuation completed, the Royal Air Force decided to adopt some form of submachine gun for airfield defense. With no time to spare for the development of a new weapon it was decided to adopt a direct copy of the German MP28II, captured examples of which were at hand for examination. The period was so desperate that the British Admiralty decided to join with the RAF in adopting the new weapon, and played a key role in its design. By a series of convoluted events, the Admiralty alone actually adopted Lanchester into service.
The British MP28 copy was given the general designation of Lanchester after George Lanchester who was charged with producing the weapon at the Sterling Armament Company, the same company that went on to produce the Sterling submachine gun that is presently the standard submachine gun of many nations.
The Lanchester was envisioned as a weapon that could be used for guarding prisoners and accompanying naval landing and assault parties. It was a very solid, extremely heavy submachine gun, in many ways the complete opposite of its direct contemporary, the Sten. The Lanchester had a heavy wooden butt and stock, a machined steel action and breech block, and a magazine housing made from a favorite naval construction material, solid brass. A few details typical for the era were added, such as a mounting on the muzzle for use of a long bladed Pattern 1907 British bayonet. The rifling differed from the German original in details to accommodate various lots of 9mm ammunition then being acquired for service use. The magazine for the Lanchester was straight and carried a useful, if quite heavy capacity of 50 9mm cartridges. Stripping of cartridges into the magazine was aided by a catch on the top of the receiver.
The very first model, the Lanchester Mk I, could fire either single shot or automatic. On the Lanchester Mk I* this was changed to full automatic fire only, and many Mk Is were converted to Mk I* standard at Royal Navy workshops. The Lanchester was an unashamed copy of a German design, but gave good service to the Royal Navy throughout the war and for some years after.
The Lanchester was far heavier than the Sten and had a similar tendency to accidentally discharge if the gun was dropped or knocked on a hard object while cocked and loaded. The last examples left Royal Naval service in the 1960’s and are now collector's items.
Who got the Lanchesters?
50,000 Lanchesters: (nearly) All for the Royal Navy.) First contract June 13, 1941.
The first order was supposed to be split 50-50 between the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, which did not happen.
By this time the British Army had supplies of the Thompson, and they made it quite clear that the Thompson was what they wanted, so the Army kept the Thompson.
The Royal Air Force would immediately receive the 2,000 newly-acquired Smith & Wesson 9mm carbines for the defense of aerodromes and airfields now springing up around the country.
(Ironically the RAF had originally requested a copy of the German MP38.)
The last contract for Lanchesters was October 9, 1943.
The actual year of manufacture of any particular Lanchester can be found stamped in small almost indistinguishable numbers next to the “crossed flags” military proof mark on top of the rearmost magazine housing flange that encompasses the casting.
Various markings on the underside of my Lanchester.
The brass butt plate.
The book on these guns.
The German MP28II that influenced the design of the Lanchester smg.
When Britain went to war in 1939, there were no sub-machineguns of any sort in her Order of Battle. In fact, the armories were bare. It was not until 1940 that the British Purchasing Commission in New York was instructed to buy all the Thompson sub-machineguns that it could lay its hands on. In all, orders were placed for 300,000 Thompson sub-machineguns and a staggering 249 million rounds of .45 cal. ammunition. (100,000 never ended up in Britain but rather at the bottom at the Atlantic Ocean ,…casualties of the German U-Boats etc.)
Once the gold reserves were gone it was a case of necessity that Britain, in desperation, just had to manufacture her own sub-machinegun.
After evaluation and debate the decision to manufacture a gun that resembled the German MP28 (11) was made, …leading to the development of the British Lanchester MK.1 sub-machinegun.
The Four Lanchester Assemblers:
Lanchester assembly contracts were actually awarded to three firms:
Sterling (two plants) 58,990
Sterling assembly of the Lanchester was split between the Sterling Engineering Co Ltd in Dagenham and the Sterling Armaments Company in North Hampton.
W W Greener – production 16,990
Boss & Co. – production 3,990
Total official production until October 1943 – 79,790.
Background;
The Lanchester was a submachine gun used by the British during World War II. In 1940, with the Dunkirk evacuation completed, the Royal Air Force decided to adopt some form of submachine gun for airfield defense. With no time to spare for the development of a new weapon it was decided to adopt a direct copy of the German MP28II, captured examples of which were at hand for examination. The period was so desperate that the British Admiralty decided to join with the RAF in adopting the new weapon, and played a key role in its design. By a series of convoluted events, the Admiralty alone actually adopted Lanchester into service.
The British MP28 copy was given the general designation of Lanchester after George Lanchester who was charged with producing the weapon at the Sterling Armament Company, the same company that went on to produce the Sterling submachine gun that is presently the standard submachine gun of many nations.
The Lanchester was envisioned as a weapon that could be used for guarding prisoners and accompanying naval landing and assault parties. It was a very solid, extremely heavy submachine gun, in many ways the complete opposite of its direct contemporary, the Sten. The Lanchester had a heavy wooden butt and stock, a machined steel action and breech block, and a magazine housing made from a favorite naval construction material, solid brass. A few details typical for the era were added, such as a mounting on the muzzle for use of a long bladed Pattern 1907 British bayonet. The rifling differed from the German original in details to accommodate various lots of 9mm ammunition then being acquired for service use. The magazine for the Lanchester was straight and carried a useful, if quite heavy capacity of 50 9mm cartridges. Stripping of cartridges into the magazine was aided by a catch on the top of the receiver.
The very first model, the Lanchester Mk I, could fire either single shot or automatic. On the Lanchester Mk I* this was changed to full automatic fire only, and many Mk Is were converted to Mk I* standard at Royal Navy workshops. The Lanchester was an unashamed copy of a German design, but gave good service to the Royal Navy throughout the war and for some years after.
The Lanchester was far heavier than the Sten and had a similar tendency to accidentally discharge if the gun was dropped or knocked on a hard object while cocked and loaded. The last examples left Royal Naval service in the 1960’s and are now collector's items.
Who got the Lanchesters?
50,000 Lanchesters: (nearly) All for the Royal Navy.) First contract June 13, 1941.
The first order was supposed to be split 50-50 between the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, which did not happen.
By this time the British Army had supplies of the Thompson, and they made it quite clear that the Thompson was what they wanted, so the Army kept the Thompson.
The Royal Air Force would immediately receive the 2,000 newly-acquired Smith & Wesson 9mm carbines for the defense of aerodromes and airfields now springing up around the country.
(Ironically the RAF had originally requested a copy of the German MP38.)
The last contract for Lanchesters was October 9, 1943.
The actual year of manufacture of any particular Lanchester can be found stamped in small almost indistinguishable numbers next to the “crossed flags” military proof mark on top of the rearmost magazine housing flange that encompasses the casting.
Various markings on the underside of my Lanchester.
The brass butt plate.
The book on these guns.
The German MP28II that influenced the design of the Lanchester smg.
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Rare for sure, but a number of them in country. I have handled 3 myself. Should have bought them when I had a chance. $250 each back in the early 90's IIRC.
Light Infantry.
The cut-off date for ‘grandfathering’ of converted autos was August 1 1992.
I can’t remember if there was an amnesty extension after that.
One of the unusual parts of the Canadian regulations is if you were licensed for full auto before January 1 1978 and you were not licensed for converted autos ---either you transferred your full auto to a 12(2) licence holder or you had to deactivate it---it could not be converted to semi auto.
I wonder how many of these converted autos or full autos have been deactivated by people like Collectors Source & others in order to increase their potential group of purchasers.
I have a collector friend that owned a full auto Lanchester that was recently sold at an auction in Ontario.
I have no idea who bought it and what eventually happened to it.
The cut-off date for ‘grandfathering’ of converted autos was August 1 1992.
I can’t remember if there was an amnesty extension after that.
One of the unusual parts of the Canadian regulations is if you were licensed for full auto before January 1 1978 and you were not licensed for converted autos ---either you transferred your full auto to a 12(2) licence holder or you had to deactivate it---it could not be converted to semi auto.
I wonder how many of these converted autos or full autos have been deactivated by people like Collectors Source & others in order to increase their potential group of purchasers.
I have a collector friend that owned a full auto Lanchester that was recently sold at an auction in Ontario.
I have no idea who bought it and what eventually happened to it.
