Does this Belong In A Bolt Action Rifle?

In a carbine you can gain almost 500 fps, my 16” Rossi shoots 158 xtp’s at just over 1700 fps, putting easily into the any deer black bear range. You don’t gain much more velocity by going over 16” in barrel length.
 
maple_leaf_eh said:
I had a .357 Mag Rossi lever action. How is it any different in a lever than a bolt action? Let's not forget the .30 M1 Carbine is based on a post WW1 Winchester self-loading rifle cartridge.
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I have a Rossi .357 lever, 19" barrel. Love shooting it! A 357 bolt would be nice.
 
My friend had a break barrel single shot in 357, it was deadly accurate and he took a couple deer with it at around 100 yards. They were dead on the spot. I've got a howa 1500 mini in 7.62x39 that weighs 5.4 lbs, I think it would be a great platform for building a 357 bolt gun?
 
I can see people having issues with the 357 mag chambered in bolt action rifles, IF, they don't handload for the true potential of the cartridge for a very strong bolt action system.

The extra barrel length will enable increased velocities with off the shelf commercial loads, but the cartridge is capable of so much more.

The commercial 357 magnum offerings are loaded for pressures deemed to be safe in the weakest actions they were chambered for in factory firearms.

When they're loaded in actions, such as the Ruger M77, the pressures can be driven much higher, safely.

I have a Martini heavy wall,smal action, chambered for the 357 Magnum, and it's loaded to much higher pressures than even the stoutest rounds for my handguns or lever actions.

I can easily get 1600fps with "published" load data, under 180 grain, jacketed bullets, from a 21 inch barrel.

I'm going to do some experiments with RL7 and H322 this coming spring and see if I can get 2000fps from it safely. It may not be doable.

My 357 Maxi will do it easily, safely, with a variety of different powders and bullets, but not with any "published" loads.

The reasons for this are obvious, most shooters don't need or want these loads, and the pressures are to high to be safe in factory handguns or many of the rifles the cartridge is chambered in.

I don't suggest anyone go beyond the factory listed loads, especially if it's not within your comfort zone, or you don't know the limitations of your rifles.

I have another small Martini, heavy wall action chambered for a wildcat on the 357 Maxi case, the 257 Maximum. It entails a tedious procedure necking down the 357 to 25 cal, with a 40 degree shoulder, without changes to the sidewall, beneath the shoulder. It's a great little cartridge and works very well with 75-100 grain projectiles. Pressures are high and case life is good.

Again, this is all personal experimentation, worked up in stages, with various components in trusted receivers, that are stronger than actions such as the Mod73/92/94 lever actions.

That Mod77 Ruger is strong, it should be capable of higher pressures than the cartridge case can withstand, so care will need to be taken if anyone decides to go beyond "published" data. The rifle may not Kaboom, but the case could come apart and bits could come back into the face of the shooter.
 
I have experience with the Ruger M77 in 357,44 and 22 Hornet. All are stainless. They are perfect little carbines. Well made abet the price. The magazines are well designed and half the cost of a Tikka T3x mag in Canada. They are just the right size for an Ontario bush hunting rifle. I wish that other companies offered something like this.

I don’t think I would trade any of my M77s. They are great plinkers for anyone moving up from a 22lr. Perfect rifle to let Wives, Kids or Girlfriends try ant the range.

And if you reload, you can make some really efficient lead mouse fart loads or go hog wild with something that would shake apart a Colt Python.

I hope I live long enough to see an open season on wild hogs in Ontario. It will be my go to carbine
 
I'd like to see the pistol ctges put into a modern Rook style rifle, underlever and sidelever break actions., not the top levers, too wakward. I have an H&H sidelever, had a Baikal underlever 12ga singleshot, most comfortable and pleasant actions I've used. Put a dovetail on them for scopes, or a low, thin Weaver rail so they could be used with either scope or peep sights.
 
mattgoulding said:
You can 100% hunt with it in alberta. You need to read the regulations. In Saskatchewan you are correct it meets minimum caliber but not minimum length
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This is correct! Years ago I spent hours corresponding with the Alberta Minister in charge of Fish & Wildlife. The 7.62x39mm was catching on and SKS rifles were $100 at gun shows. I read somewhere someone calling the 7.62x39 the new 30-30 and it gave me the idea to pursue getting the Alberta minimum cartridge case length removed. So began my quest! ⚔️

My argument was:
1. That the rule was written long ago when black powder may have still been common enough that it took a case of 1.75” or 44mm firing a minimum .23 caliber bullet to cleanly take big game.

2. Modern propellants meant that ballistics exceeded the old minimums of yesteryear. So I picked the 30-30 Win vs the 7.62x39 to illustrate my point.

3. Because the 7.62x39mm was loaded with modern sharply pointed Spitzer type bullets, of higher Ballistic Coefficients, these bullets carried as much or more energy at 200 yards than the flat nosed 7.62mm bullets the 30-30 Win is commercially loaded with.

4. Rifles firing Caseless ammunition loaded with 6mm bullets or larger were appearing on the market. While easily exceeding the power of the 30-30 Win, the hard compressed propellant forming the “case” was sometimes shorter than 1.75” or 44mm in length and vaporized upon firing. Thusly leaving nothing at all to be ejected upon the rifle’s action being cycled.

*I added a few charts & graphs because politicians love those things like they are their own special ####.

To cut this novella short, the Minister got back to me that the Rule regarding Minimum Case Length was antiquated and would be removed by the next printing of the Alberta Rules And Regulations of hunting big game animals.

He also told me that an official memo would be sent out immediately to all Fish & Wildlife Officers regarding Caseless Ammunition. As long as the bore was over the minimum .23 caliber, the length of the “Propellent Case” was irrelevant.

Reading the next year’s copy of the regulations there was no longer any rule regarding minimum case length. The Minister’s word was good.

And for the first time gents killing deer with the venerable old 44 Rem Mag with its puny 1.285” or 32.6mm case length, were doing it legally.
 
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