Dog school

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Licensed to kill

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School me on bird dogs for grouse, specifically, pointer vs flusher. What would be a good choice, how much training is required of a specific breed, how much do they need to be “worked” in order for them retain their “ability” etc. have never owned or hunted over a bird dog but have always wanted to.
 
Licensed to kill said:
School me on bird dogs for grouse, specifically, pointer vs flusher. What would be a good choice, how much training is required of a specific breed, how much do they need to be “worked” in order for them retain their “ability” etc. have never owned or hunted over a bird dog but have always wanted to.
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You may want to try the hunting form
 
Like most things it depends. If you want a dog to do the bare minimum most dogs need only a little training but if you want a finished dog it takes a lot more time. There are many youtube videos that could give you an idea. I've always had pointing dogs as I like the way they work but many like flushing dogs more.
 
Just remember, what ever you get, you are going to spend a lot more time not hunting with it than you will hunting with it. So get one you can live with.
 
if you are a novice, and if you have the money, buy one that's already fully trained.

well bred dogs with generations of hunting genetics will do most of the work instinctively, but you would probably not recognize these traits if you don't have experience with hunting dogs. so best to get one fully trained and learn from the dog.
 
canvasback said:
Just remember, what ever you get, you are going to spend a lot more time not hunting with it than you will hunting with it. So get one you can live with.
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+++10
Had only one hunting dog, Emma.
A Small Münsterländer
Our third dog, but first hunting dog.
Great family pet and incredible drive to hunt and work.
Reputable breeders will give you good advice advice.
 
I'll echo whats been said here on dog selection... figure out what breed or breeds you are looking at, and start talking to some breeders.

As for pointer vs flusher, it's very much a personal preference. Both can be very effective at hunting grouse... watch some videos or better yet find someone to hunt behind each to make your choice. I personally think there is nothing more exciting than walking up to a dog locked on point - but to be fair, I've never hunted with a well bred and trained flusher (s).
I highly recommend navhda if you are interested in any of the versatile breeds. Lots of proven hunting dogs being bred (do some research), many of which can be great companions in the house as well.
 
I have hunted over both, but for pheasant, sharptailed grouse and Hungarian Partridge. I much prefer a pointing dog , but that has a lot to do with the type of hunting that I do, and the terrain that I hunt. A pointing dog can cover much more territory, because the handler doesn't have to keep up with the dog, like you have to with a flushing dog. As far as training, I suggest joining a NAVHDA chapter, of you get a pointing dog, as dogs are not plug and play, and the handler should understand the basics of training. A handler with no clue as to training, can actually cause a lot of issues, for even a fully trained dog. Whatever dog you consider, go with a dog from proven hunting bloodlines, and greatly improve your odds of getting a good hunting dog.
 
The topic of bird dogs is both a sensitive and emotional one. You may have read that a man may be far more forgiving if you happen to insult his wife than if you express anything negative about his bird dog. I believe that most of us would say that is true !! In spite of all our good intentions with respect to giving you some "pointers" in this thread, you will not end up with much knowledge or "schooling" from our efforts.......It takes a lifetime, and even that will not seem to be long enough. All dogs are wonderful . I happened to spend 45 years and counting with grouse hunting pointing dogs ( usually in multiples ) and never missed not hunting with a flushing hunter. It is important for us all to understand that in the same ways that we are not always perfect, the same applies to our dogs. Also important to realize that it is a contract for life.
Your chances of ending up with a "good" dog will be greater if you start with a pup from a reputable breeder than if you start with an older dog. None of us would ever part with a great dog........Just a few observations from an old guy.....
 
Pete G said:
The topic of bird dogs is both a sensitive and emotional one. You may have read that a man may be far more forgiving if you happen to insult his wife than if you express anything negative about his bird dog. I believe that most of us would say that is true !! In spite of all our good intentions with respect to giving you some "pointers" in this thread, you will not end up with much knowledge or "schooling" from our efforts.......It takes a lifetime, and even that will not seem to be long enough. All dogs are wonderful . I happened to spend 45 years and counting with grouse hunting pointing dogs ( usually in multiples ) and never missed not hunting with a flushing hunter. It is important for us all to understand that in the same ways that we are not always perfect, the same applies to our dogs. Also important to realize that it is a contract for life.
Your chances of ending up with a "good" dog will be greater if you start with a pup from a reputable breeder than if you start with an older dog. None of us would ever part with a great dog........Just a few observations from an old guy.....
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Very good advice.

BTW, good to see you posting Pete. Maybe just my inattentiveness but hadn’t noticed you posting for the last while. Hope you are well.
 
When deciding on hunting dogs you first have to decide what kind of a hunter you are. If you enjoy chasing upland birds then I’d suggest a pointer. If you are a waterfowler then a breed of water loving lab might be a better choice. And if you are more of a chasing kind of hunter rabbit, fox or coyote some breed of hound. Labs and pointers can be double duty dogs but they will be better at one thing or the other. Just remember all hunting dogs are high exercise if you are not….think carefully about your selection.
Labs and pointers can be great family dogs. Hounds are usually a little less house oriented. All hunting breeds perform best when hunted an excersied if they are not they can become destructive and unruly…remember tired dogs are well behaved dogs. Make sure you understand the time investment required in raising a well behaved pet that you, your family and your dog require. Dogs are family members and like children that never grow up. A Hunting dog will be the best hunting partner you will every have they always want to go and will hunt harder than you for you.
 
Being you are from a northern area and mostly interested in grouse, I would limit my options to a dog with a heavier coat. I would also want a close working dog to keep flushes in range when the leaves are on and keep the dog out of trouble.

I like Labradors but would also be quite happy with a Springer as I don't do as much waterfowl as I once did. For a pointer, I would go with a Wirehaired Griffon or Wirehaired German Pointer.
 
Very good advice from all ,I live in the best of both worlds have my pointer(GSP) for my upland adventures and a solid well trained Lab that I purchased as a 3 year old fully trained field trials dog.Have had 3 labs and a golden retriever and yes no truer words were spoken that you hunt 3 months and live 12 with them.No regrets buying the 3 year old he is a great family pet as well as the GSP .I'm on the wet coast so the GSP is ok most of the time but she does not like cold even with her jacket so a wired or heavier coat dog is probably good advice.My daughter lived in London Ont. for 7 years and her English pointer did not like the weather pattern there at all but thrives out here.Enjoy the search there are many good NAVDA breeds out there as well ,PP ,draughter,griffon have hunted with all.My team
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MK2750 said:
Being you are from a northern area and mostly interested in grouse, I would limit my options to a dog with a heavier coat. I would also want a close working dog to keep flushes in range when the leaves are on and keep the dog out of trouble.

I like Labradors but would also be quite happy with a Springer as I don't do as much waterfowl as I once did. For a pointer, I would go with a Wirehaired Griffon or Wirehaired German Pointer.
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This is well worth thinking about. I have setters. Lived in Winnipeg for 10 years with them. There was no morning too cold for them to want to go out for the 1 hr morning walk. Including the very rare -40 mornings. I only bought gear for them when one was quite old and just couldn't move around as much. She still wanted to be out though. All the short haired versatile breeds might find things a bit uncomfortable when the mercury really drops.
 
stubblejumper said:
I have hunted over both, but for pheasant, sharptailed grouse and Hungarian Partridge. I much prefer a pointing dog , but that has a lot to do with the type of hunting that I do, and the terrain that I hunt. A pointing dog can cover much more territory, because the handler doesn't have to keep up with the dog, like you have to with a flushing dog. As far as training, I suggest joining a NAVHDA chapter, of you get a pointing dog, as dogs are not plug and play, and the handler should understand the basics of training. A handler with no clue as to training, can actually cause a lot of issues, for even a fully trained dog. Whatever dog you consider, go with a dog from proven hunting bloodlines, and greatly improve your odds of getting a good hunting dog.
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I'd echo this to the letter! As far as training, every dog need basic obedience. This is 10min a day for at least the first 6-8 months as a minimum in my mind. If you're training for a higher standard, I'm 20min, for each of my pointers a day. You'll get out what you put in. For the most part, if you have a crummy dog, it's a reflection of the trainer.
how much a dog needs to be worked really is dependent on the dog (not even the breed). For my guys, I can free run them for an hour off a horse or side by side or I can do 20mim of mental engaging training with them. It's pretty tough to just wear a dog out physically speaking.
 
I have never hunted with a dog but have been doing a lot of research and im definitely interested as well, I think a German Shorthaired Pointer, brittanys and Munsterlanders are good dogs to point not flush, beagles and spaniels are good flushing dogs. My research shows it is harder to have a "finished dog" that will point and not attack because it goes against the natural premative instincts of dogs. Regardless super cool and lots of training involved. I don't get how most people train though do they do it them selves or higher someone. I imagine if you hire someone you might have to leave your best friend with the trainer for a few months not to mention it can't be cheap. Very interested in this topic. Excited to get more into it. Happy Hunting!!
 
I have never hunted with a dog but have been doing a lot of research and im definitely interested as well, I think a German Shorthaired Pointer, brittanys and Munsterlanders are good dogs to point not flush, beagles and spaniels are good flushing dogs. My research shows it is harder to have a "finished dog" that will point and not attack because it goes against the natural premative instincts of dogs. Regardless super cool and lots of training involved. I don't get how most people train though do they do it them selves or higher someone. I imagine if you hire someone you might have to leave your best friend with the trainer for a few months not to mention it can't be cheap. Very interested in this topic. Excited to get more into it. Happy Hunting!!
 
Breeding is key, I've got my dogs for the last 40 years from the same breeder who is also s field trial judge and have never had a dud. Try to find someone in your area the has experience, most hunting dog owners will be happy to help get you started. This is my last dog Boone at 51/2 months on a training session 2 years ago.
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and this year
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