Doodling a 10/22-Charger 'mixed' build, looking for technical review

Diamondback Six

Diamondback Six

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Seattle, WA, USA--a neighbor to the South
Obligatory caveat first: As an American, my legal environment is rather different than yours north of The Line, keep that in mind. Most of what I'm looking for here is for prior 10/22 builders to review my concept and sanity-check me--I frequently tend to embody the remark in a line from a favorite movie about "you were so concerned about whether or not you COULD you didn't stoop to think whether or not you SHOULD."

Overall Concept: Inspired by the old Stoner 63 "Modular Weapons System" and how under certain conditions in US law some long-barrel revolvers, Thompson/Center Contenders and AR15s can switch-hit between pistol and rifle at will, applying that concept to the Ruger 10/22 action to create a "Quick Change" package where I can fit everything it needs for a range trip in pistol, rifle or "mixed" sessions into a single briefcase or toolbag. A single-case solution allows me to keep everything packed for grab-n-go but in a secure compact storage system, and means that should C. decide it's worth us building her a full kit of her own so she can join me in Appleseed shoots or your Postal Matches here it means her share of the load is in a similar self-contained package that she can do her own schlepping. (I'd cheat with a collapsible wagon a lot, but it's a matter of principle with me that if you wanna shoot with me, you carry at least part of the gear at least part of the way from parking space to firing line.)

Core components - chassis/action
  • Chassis - Ruger Charger Takedown OEM
  • Receiver - Brownells BRN22 flattop with BRN26 (NoDak Spud) rail/rear sight
  • Bolt - Ruger OEM
  • Charging Handle - Ruger OEM
  • Crosspins - Tandemkross and Tuffer Buffer
  • FCG - 5# Ruger factory takeoff from a buddy (I get uneasy at anything less than 4#)
  • Brace adapter - Copper Custom 1913
  • Grip - FAB Defense AGF-43S folder as used on USAF GAU-5 ASDW

6" barrel assembly
  • Barrel - Acculite 6" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
  • Takedown hardware - Acculite
  • Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
  • Handguard - Ruger OEM included with chassis, hogged out as needed

10" barrel assembly
  • Barrel - Acculite 10" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
  • Takedown hardware - Acculite
  • Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
  • Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-8H 8" M-Lok

16" barrel assembly
  • Barrel - Acculite 16.5" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
  • Takedown hardware - Acculite
  • Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
  • Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-13H 13" M-Lok

Pistol brace assembly
  • Brace mount - Midwest MI-STAP-SF sidefold storage tube with SB Tactical LOPL length-of-pull limiters (note: right now the STAP requires an Allen wrench to install/remove, but MI is working on a QD lever or thumbscrew hardware upgrade kit and I'm planning on it here)
  • Brace - SB Tactical SBA3

Rifle stock assembly
  • Stock mount - Midwest MI-STAP-SF sidefold storage tube (yes, a second, no LOP limiters as the entire point here is "avoid fighting with small parts"--if ATF weren't going frootloops on pistol braces and imposing a 13.5" LOP upper limit I'd say "one tube just pop-n-swap")
  • Stock - AR telestock, exact model not yet determined

Overall accessories and special features
  • Mix of OEM 10-rd magazines between single, double- and triple-coupled
  • Maglula loader/unloader set, along with Caldwell rimfire Mag Charger
  • out-of-production Real Avid 10/22 Field Pack (field maintenance guide, micro toolset and cleaning kit)
  • Witness marks on rear sight for each barrel's zero, color coded to match markings on the rear of each front sight (inspired by a suggestion from Harlan at NoDak Spud)
  • Harbor Freight 18" hardside toolcase
  • Possibly add Bushnell TRS25 red-dot later; the entire point is something to learn iron sights for Appleseed/Mapleseed on

On the technical level, do any of you guys see any barriers I'm overlooking?

Secondary legal question... let's assume that we can somehow bulldoze a path for my girlfriend through the BS of getting and keeping a PAL in the Toronto area. Is there any way the rifle components of this fit together as an NR she could build her own copy of up there (basically the stock assembly, core chassis and 16" barrel assembly only), or is the lowly 10/22 regarded with the same absurd hostility as it is here in WA and Ottawa's classed all variants as Restricted or Prohib? (Here all semiautos are considered "assault weapons" even down to the 10/22 or M1 Garand with a mandatory registration unless you build your own from a stripped receiver. DIY's are exploding, needless to say... we're not Cancerfornia YET but you can see the metastasizing creep from here.) This is a side matter, I'm mostly concerned about the technicals since I don't see the first build ever crossing the 49th even if it does happen.
 
I've always gone by the rule of only takedown if you absolutely need it like a backpacking rifle in a 10/22/charger. The takedown aspect = less barrel options and it will be your main limiting factor for accuracy. takedown 10/22s have awful accuracy regardless of how much money you throw at it.

legally speaking, If its in a charger receiver its a handgun here. regardless of barrel length its restricted.
 
MkivSupra said:
I've always gone by the rule of only takedown if you absolutely need it like a backpacking rifle in a 10/22/charger. The takedown aspect = less barrel options and it will be your main limiting factor for accuracy. takedown 10/22s have awful accuracy regardless of how much money you throw at it.

legally speaking, If its in a charger receiver its a handgun here. regardless of barrel length its restricted.
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I’ve only used 1 10/22 takedown and the locking connection was loose and I was unable to tighten it any more. It wasn’t mine. I would never buy one because of that experience.
 
Getting stuff across the border is enough of a pain that for custom 10/22 bits I've gone to Canadian manufacturers like Dlask, Grey Birch, MDT, and IBI, plus local gun stores for imported parts. The same activity south of the border would be drawing from a different and no doubt much wider menu! So you'd end up with a completely different firearm.

The laws being different would be an issue too. Yes, I could probably track down a Charger, but staying Non-Restricted per Canadian regulation is oh so much less hassle.

And there's no reason custom 10/22s have to be the same. If your girlfriend builds one in Canada it should be built to what she wants to do with it. Or check with Dlask or Grey Birch if she wants one already assembled.
 
I have some experience with multiple 10/22 Take Down barrel assemblies on one receiver. I found it to be challenging in regard to fine tuning for consistant reliability, accuracy and take-down tension, using multiple barrels. However given that you intend to use 3 barrels, all from the same manufacturer, perhaps you will have an easier time.

Here is my setup (all configurations are non-restricted in Canada using a 10/22 rifle receiver - not a Charger receiver):
IMG-0279.jpg
 
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Thanks, Tom--that's part of the interest here, easy to get a basic casual plinker together but the challenge of expanding to a multirole system. (Then again, I'm nuts enough that someday I want to attempt a WWI Gauge Gun--a complete 1911 parts set, each piece dimensionally perfect in every way. A hundred were made as test fixtures to support starting up the tooling on license-build lines for The War, and I'd bet that in a time when machine time was expensive and hand labor cheap each of those hundred consumed the same man-hours as an entire day's regular production if not more.)

Clarification question: When I say "receiver," I mean the serial-numbered top-rear part the bolt goes into--for example BRN-22's are marked neither rifle nor pistol because they're only sold as bare receivers. Is RCMP going by that, or the chassis the receiver mounts in? (Even there, unless it has an integral stock a chassis built to use AR-style stock tubes like the Midwest MI-1022-TDC can physically swing either way depending on 1. if a tube's installed and 2. what's mounted on it.)
 
Canada has wierd rules:
Yes, it is the metal receiver with the serial number that is the actual firearm.
A Charger pistol receiver, once registered as a pistol (restricted) can never be turned back into a rifle. If you are starting with a bare receiver, you need to make sure you register it as a non-restricted rifle. However that means the non-restircted rifle can't have a folding or telescoping stock that reduces the overall length to less than 26", with the shortest barrel.

I found that the diameter of the portion of the TD barrels that insert into the receiver was slightly different for each barrel. That made getting the correct tension quite problematic. It is no fun having to adjust the tension every time you change barrels. The 16" Volquartsen barrel ended up getting turned down on the lathe to solve this issue. Hopefully your 3 barrels will all be much closer to the same diameter. Fine tuning the bolt and recoil spring to work with all types of ammo and all barrel lengths was also a bit of a process.
 
Weird, but we have our share of weird too, like "first completion as pistol can switch-hit at will but if first finished as rifle remains a rifle forevermore." (And don't get me started on the idiots in Seattle who got the 10/22, M1 Garand and the SKS classed as "assault weapons, because every semiauto is only designed for killing people"*snort*...)

Basically, since I have a pro gunsmith I partner with to do the "heavy lifting" I can't do in my studio (read: "anything involving a vise or heavy machinery") I'm thinking that as each successive barrel is ordered have him mike them and lathe the rear ends down to "least common denominator."
 
So, here's how the project is slowly creeping along down here... parts in-hand or ordered in Bold.

Core components - chassis/action
  • Chassis - Ruger Charger Takedown OEM
  • Receiver - Brownells BRN22 flattop or Ruger part-out from S&P
  • Rear sight/rail: BRN26 (NoDak Spud) rail/rear sight
  • Bolt - Ruger OEM
  • Charging Handle - Ruger OEM via MidwayUSA
  • Crosspins - Tandemkross
  • Other FCG pins - Pete's Pillars stainless
  • Bolt stop - Tuffer Buffer-style from Pete's Pillars
  • FCG - 5# Ruger factory takeoff from a buddy at NWFA
  • Grip - FAB Defense AGF-43S folder as used on USAF GAU-5 ASDW

Toolkit
  • Tandemkross Mag Tool
  • out-of-production Real Avid 10/22 Field Pack (field maintenance guide, micro toolset and cleaning kit)
  • Caldwell rimfire Mag Charger
  • Maglula LU30B loader/unloader kit
  • Tandemkross Gunsmither Bolt Bar
  • Tandemkross Gunsmither Safety Tool
  • Tier 1 3d Prints chamber flag/mag block

Case
  • Harbor Freight 18" aluminum case
  • Speedwrap velcro component tie-downs and mounts
  • MTM ammo/small tool cases
  • Tier 1 3d Prints mag cases

6" barrel assembly
  • Barrel - Acculite 6" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
  • Takedown hardware - Acculite
  • Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
  • Handguard - Ruger OEM included with chassis, hogged out as needed

10" barrel assembly
  • Barrel - Acculite 10" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
  • Takedown hardware - Acculite
  • Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
  • Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-8H 8" M-Lok

Pistol brace assembly
  • Brace adapter - Farrowtech 1913, no QD socket
  • Brace mount - Midwest MI-STAP-SF sidefold storage tube with SB Tactical LOPL length-of-pull limiters
  • QD adapter - Leapers MNT-RSQD403
  • Brace - SB Tactical SBA3

16" barrel assembly
  • Barrel - Acculite 16.5" .920 bull, threaded no flutes
  • Takedown hardware - Acculite
  • Front sight - NoDak Spud NDS-23
  • Handguard - Midwest MI-1022-13H 13" M-Lok
  • Alternate option - Ruger 90565 full TD barrel assembly, remove rear sight and add MI-1022-13H

Rifle stock assembly
  • Stock mount - Midwest MI-STAP-SF sidefold storage tube
  • QD adapter - Leapers MNT-RSQD403
  • Stock - AR telestock, exact model not yet determined

Mags, other accessories and special features
  • Mix of OEM 10-rd magazines between single, double- and triple-coupled
  • Ruger 90403 mag dustcovers
  • Alangator tri-mag couplers (one on the way)
  • Witness marks on rear sight for each barrel's zero, color coded to match markings on the rear of each front sight
  • Possibly add Bushnell TRS25 red-dot later; the entire point is something to learn iron sights on
  • Leapers TL-BP28S bipod (same as Ruger OEM)
 
Well, here's where we are:
attachment.php

The two optic-risers near the brace are meant to act as quick-detach adapters for my brace and stock mounting tubes. Most of the major components are waiting for vendor stock so I'm sniping things off $50 to $100 at a time through inventory-reduction sales as I find them.

Not pictured but in hand, recoil spring/charging handle assembly.
 
Better pic, I hope, with latest arrivals... looks like I'm gonna have to write off most of the case's standard foam.
20220116_174759.jpg


Lid organizer: Tandemkross Mag Toolkit, Real Avid Field Guide, Real Avid 10/22 Micro Tool.

Back: SBA3 brace, two Leapers MNT-RSQD403's for mounting brace/stock tubes, MTM ammo-and-tools case.

Front: Alangator Trimag coupler, Real Avid Bore Boss cleaner, FAB Defense PTK-M and VTS-M AFG and thumbrest, Pete's Pillars and Tandemkross FCG/receiver/boltstop pins, Ruger OEM oprod, NoDak Spud NDS-23 front and BRN-26 rear sights.

My thinking here is to stack the receiver/6" barrel and 16" barrel one-atop-other closest to the hinge, the two backends in front of that with the 10" barrel on top of them and optics between, then mags/ammo/tools across the front closest to the handle.
 
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Not to gloat, but latest update:

Based on current "13.5" max from brace end to trigger face" rule I had to block off two positions on the tube, this is longest legal setting based on estimated trigger position. Trigger pack and front ends still to-do.
20220304_131316.jpg

Red section is part of the grip beavertail I need to Dremel off before I can tighten down the back-end screw holding the adapter-chassis-grip assembly together.

Based on this prototype setup, I'm thinking see if Midwest's planned QD STAP tube cuts enough length to allow Position 5, but stick with this "standard STAP on QD riser" for the stock to help keep the OAL in rifle mode over 26".
 
I gotta admit to near total ignorance to the rules Stateside as to how the difference between a "brace", and a "stock" goes, as they never affected me in the least up here.

Can you give us a rundown in short form?

It isn't "The shoulder thing that goes up", by any means, but the wriggly line between a brace and a stock, has so far as I can see, been mostly writ in invisible ink...
 
Pistol brace is supposedly "not conducive to shouldering"--either through a narrow rear face like a Shockwave Blade or flexible, non-load-bearing materials and small rear surface-area like the SB Tactical designs. Example, most of the rigidity in the SBA3 above is from the strap around it.

The rules are going to change around August again because the BATF---ers aren't happy if they're not finding some new creative way to make criminals out of own-business-minding gunowners, but for right now that and "maximum length from rear face to trigger face 13.5" or less" are the rules. I have two limiters blocking the last two brace positions to ensure that.

As an aside, this is as far as the project's going for a while--with WA going Full F'ing Moron despite 15-to-1 voter objections and banning full-capacity magazines, from now until that takes effect in July every dime of my gun-fund and whatever I can divert from other discretionary-spending budget.
 
Diamondback Six said:
Pistol brace is supposedly "not conducive to shouldering"--either through a narrow rear face like a Shockwave Blade or flexible, non-load-bearing materials and small rear surface-area like the SB Tactical designs. Example, most of the rigidity in the SBA3 above is from the strap around it.

The rules are going to change around August again because the BATF---ers aren't happy if they're not finding some new creative way to make criminals out of own-business-minding gunowners, but for right now that and "maximum length from rear face to trigger face 13.5" or less" are the rules. I have two limiters blocking the last two brace positions to ensure that.

As an aside, this is as far as the project's going for a while--with WA going Full F'ing Moron despite 15-to-1 voter objections and banning full-capacity magazines, from now until that takes effect in July every dime of my gun-fund and whatever I can divert from other discretionary-spending budget.
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LOL! OK, it's as screwed there, as it is here. I feel yer pain.

In your case you have the BATFE (should be a convenience store, not a Government org!), we have the RCMP Tech Division.

On the plus side for y'all, you have a Constitutionally protected Right to Keep and Bear, so long as folks keep up the fight!

Thanks for the quick response and the explanation. It's more to go on than I had before. :)

Like the build. Lots of stuff there that we can't have at all.

Some stuff here that you can't. Eether, either!
 
Dude, you have no idea how much of a pain it was cloning a C8A3 for my girlfriend to shoot with next time she's out here... :) even with the headstart of the BCM upper group I had to import buttpads from the UK and by-guess-or-by-golly with an Airsoft tri-rail, and Gunkote even had to develop a specialized air-cure version of one of their greens for that project. (Though the hardest part was getting her an Umbrella Corp. receiver, three years of trying since they only seem to do one batch a year.)

That description is my best understanding, which should be taken with a grain of salt--when in doubt I assemble a mockup without receiver or with a dummy receiver, or some major functional part missing, I haul that across the Giant Toilet Bowl's urban wastelands to my usual gunsmith and we consult his lawyer.

On the upside, I expect our shiny new State Mag Ban to get nuked in a year or two when Duncan v Bonta is decided by SCOTUS, just gonna be a hairy couple years til that.
 
Diamondback Six said:
Dude, you have no idea how much of a pain it was cloning a C8A3 for my girlfriend to shoot with next time she's out here... :) even with the headstart of the BCM upper group I had to import buttpads from the UK and by-guess-or-by-golly with an Airsoft tri-rail, and Gunkote even had to develop a specialized air-cure version of one of their greens for that project. (Though the hardest part was getting her an Umbrella Corp. receiver, three years of trying since they only seem to do one batch a year.)

That description is my best understanding, which should be taken with a grain of salt--when in doubt I assemble a mockup without receiver or with a dummy receiver, or some major functional part missing, I haul that across the Giant Toilet Bowl's urban wastelands to my usual gunsmith and we consult his lawyer.

On the upside, I expect our shiny new State Mag Ban to get nuked in a year or two when Duncan v Bonta is decided by SCOTUS, just gonna be a hairy couple years til that.
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Well, heads down and hopes up! Best of luck with that! I mean it!

The gold standard on this side of the line is to enact yet another restriction every time some criminal scum does something irredeemably stupid, yet they never seem to do anything about the criminals. <spit> No politician wants to upset their voter base!

Some days I still figure that Politics went sideways about the exact moment Rope was no longer being used by the electorate to provide feedback!
 
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