Double charge and squibs - how does it happen?

john777

john777

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I'm planning to buy a progressive press. Just wondering how could this happen.

I'm considering the Dillon XL650 and I read someone got a squib even with powder check alarm. Of course, can't entirely rely of fail safe.

All I know is, the dillon XL650 will rotate one way, so once you pull the lever down and up, the brass will move to new station. I can understand squibs (out of powder) but how about double charging?

Is it user error or that the powder dispenser did it?

TIA!
 
Could short stroke it and not have it rotate fully. Or gunk in the powder dispenser causing it to open too much.

Crap happens :D Especially if it only happens to one person, now if you read many reports of this then you might want to worry.
 
I see.

Sounds like I better visually inspect each case before putting on the bullet. I suppose I can pump out 10,000 rounds no problem (on top of powder over/under alarm), but if I manage to double charge one, my P226R will die and perhaps me.

This is one major reason I want the XL650 instead of the 550 since it has over charge powder alarm, but i guess I can't rely on it.
 
i do you one better- i WEIGH each and every COMPETED round after establishing a low and high for the BRAND of brass i'm working with- since you know what the range of brass is, what the bullet should weigh,and what the primer weighs, then you are left with what the powder charge should be- using a digital scale, the squibs and doubles show up like a sore thumb- any that fall out of the "normal" range for whatever reason( light bullet , light case. squib or double) fall to eraser and get re-made AND re-weighed- it could be a combination of factors that give a light or heavy load-
 
IIRC my empty brass varies in a 12gr range, can't rely much on that!
the reason squibs and doubles happen (the way I see it and the way my last week's squib hapened) is that sometimes the depriming pin won't do it's job so the indexing can't go on, so you proceed onto removing every case from the press, and BAM #### HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT EM BACK ON
 
GSoD: Do you have the powder over/under alarm option installed?

At least squibs are safer, provided I check barrel after a misfire, but double charging is much more scarier, especially being a noob wanting to get into reloading. LOL!
 
Being concerned about a double charge is a valid concern. Having seen the results when someone on the range near me let one go, it is not fun.

Depending upon the caliber that you plan to reload, consider a bulky powder that will overflow the case if a double charge goes in. Or set up a mirror on your press so that you can see inside each case after the powder has gone in.
 
john777 said:
I'm planning to buy a progressive press. Just wondering how could this happen.

I'm considering the Dillon XL650 and I read someone got a squib even with powder check alarm. Of course, can't entirely rely of fail safe.

All I know is, the dillon XL650 will rotate one way, so once you pull the lever down and up, the brass will move to new station. I can understand squibs (out of powder) but how about double charging?

Is it user error or that the powder dispenser did it?

TIA!
Click to expand...

The powder check is a worthy investment, but its a backup. The design of the XL650 and the way it drives the powder measure makes it hard to short stroke a round. Its even harder to double stroke a round and get powder on the second stroke. Not that I'm daring someone to try it. The press is designed to prevent that.

One way to have a problem is by interupting the cycle somehow, for example taking a round out to measure the charge and forgetting to put the powder back in before reinserting the casing into the cycle. (Been there done that)

Using a single stage press is actually much more prone to error than a XL650 simply because while a machine can break, it can't make a mistake.

Folks that depend on what they believe is additional quality control measures (for example weighing every round and/or visual inspection) are missing the point of a progressive press and are misguided in believing they are actually improving the quality assurance over the mechanical checks built into the XL650. They are more likely to make a mistake in their manual Q/A then the XL650 machine is in its mechanical process. Same can't be said for the 550 which has a manual advance.

That said, I use an XL650 and I have to admit I'm strange and actually shake each 45 Colt I make before I use them in a match just to make sure there's some powder in them. Paranoia wins out over logic every time!.

One other note, squibs are a fact of life. If you shoot enough you are likely to get one for one reason or another and its not that uncommon to have it happen with a factory round. Learn to recognize them and deal with them.
 
john777 said:
I'm planning to buy a progressive press. Just wondering how could this happen.

I'm considering the Dillon XL650 and I read someone got a squib even with powder check alarm. Of course, can't entirely rely of fail safe.

All I know is, the dillon XL650 will rotate one way, so once you pull the lever down and up, the brass will move to new station. I can understand squibs (out of powder) but how about double charging?

Is it user error or that the powder dispenser did it?

TIA!
Click to expand...

The only way to load a squib is when your press jams for whatever reason. You remove your primed brass on the shell plate to clear the jam and then you place it back on the seating station. Voila, you just loaded a squib. Besides that, it's virtually impossible to screw up. Even when you pump the handle twice in mid stroke, the fail safe rod will prevent a double charge.I handload standing up so I always check the powder level in the case before placing a bullet. A double charge is obvious and a squib can be detected in any short pistol case.

I loaded a few squib but never double charge. Mind you that a powder check die will almost eliminate that risk. To eliminate completely a screw up, you have to be 100% focused on reloading.
 
Any progressive loader can be subject to a squib.


I know once I had a jam-up in my RED machine....and when I put the primed cases back in the shell plate I missed the powder in one.

I also had the linkage on the powder measure became loose and missed a charge....also on RED machine.

Your powder could also bridge in the measure and hang up...then on next round you could get some extra or a double charge.

The bonus of the RED Koolaid machine is you can physically see right inside the case as you put the bullet in....if you miss one it is pretty much your OWN doing for not catching it at that point.



As far as I am concerned there are 2 types of reloaders that use Progressive presses....those that have had a squib....and those that haven't had one yet....but it can and will happen.

Your best defense against a squib is to train yourself to catch it on the range....that and NEVER be in a rush or distracted by anyone or anything when your reloading. It should always be done in a steady/slow methodical manner.
 
Hey, thanks for all the responses. Sure helps a lot for a noob to better understand the potential reasons why these problems can occur. Now I have a better idea what to expect!
 
charles.emond said:
IIRC my empty brass varies in a 12gr range, can't rely much on that!
the reason squibs and doubles happen (the way I see it and the way my last week's squib hapened) is that sometimes the depriming pin won't do it's job so the indexing can't go on, so you proceed onto removing every case from the press, and BAM s**t HAPPENS WHEN YOU PUT EM BACK ON
Click to expand...

12 grains variance?- even in federals i don't get that much-and i'm using lead bullets too- now maybe if i was to mix up a bunch of winchester/federal/rp/whatever- but i'm doing 44 mag, and i know that my winchester brass is going to vary between 100-110, federal is 110-120, and i don;t beleive you can stuff 20 grains of 231 in a 44 mag case- and fit the bullet?and that would be a double charge in my case
 
I use a 550, and the only way to get a double charge is if you arent paying attention when inderxing a round. Sometimes the primer doesnt get removed on the first attempt, and if you forget to index before you try and remove the primer the second time.. you get a double charge.
I have never had a squib yet.

After a few cycles on the press you will become familiar with its sounds and how it feels. you will know when a primer didnt come out, or if one didnt seat properly.
 
Never had either. With a progressive, anything that might happen to generate a double charge is also liable to try and stuff a fresh primer into an already primed case.

Once you get used to the feel of the press, and can recognize when something ISN'T right, you'll worry less.
 
Antoine22 said:
The only way to load a squib is when your press jams for whatever reason. You remove your primed brass on the shell plate to clear the jam and then you place it back on the seating station. Voila, you just loaded a squib. Besides that, it's virtually impossible to screw up. Even when you pump the handle twice in mid stroke, the fail safe rod will prevent a double charge.I handload standing up so I always check the powder level in the case before placing a bullet. A double charge is obvious and a squib can be detected in any short pistol case.

I loaded a few squib but never double charge. Mind you that a powder check die will almost eliminate that risk. To eliminate completely a screw up, you have to be 100% focused on reloading.
Click to expand...
True but you'll need the 650xl to have a powder check die as the 550 toolhead has only 4 stations. However, Dillon claims the powder die will replace the expander die, I decided to keep it, maybe I should chuck it...


t-star said:
12 grains variance?- even in federals i don't get that much-and i'm using lead bullets too- now maybe if i was to mix up a bunch of winchester/federal/rp/whatever- but i'm doing 44 mag, and i know that my winchester brass is going to vary between 100-110, federal is 110-120, and i don;t beleive you can stuff 20 grains of 231 in a 44 mag case- and fit the bullet?and that would be a double charge in my case
Click to expand...

yes, it's mixed brass for 45acp...
winchester
remington
federal
starline
speer
hornady
military
some weird logos brand
 
Alright, I picked up my Dillon 650 and auto case feeder with powder check system.

I examined the powder dispenser. Once calibrated, it looks physically impossible for machine to dispense more powder, but only less if something gets clogged up.

So at the end, it looks like with this unit, it boils down to user error or forgetting that powder was dispensed while fixing a jam or something.

Looking into caliber conversion kits, I had the dumb idea that I just only need to buy 3 die set for other calibers and use the same shell plate, power funnels, etc. 9mm and 44 mag uses totally different parts for this area. That's an extra $100+ I didn't factor in. LOL!

I bought the large pistol plate, but now I need a small rifle plate for .223 (bought Norc M4 today too!)... then a large rifle plate for 30-06 in the future for Garand or something. It's going to take me a few years to pay itself off!
 
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