Double rifle regulation

Longwalker

Longwalker

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Can anyone recommend a smith who is skilled and experienced in regulating double rifles? I recently purchased a Beretta O/U 9.3x74R double rifle with traditional soldered barrels that was regulated at the factory with open sights, and Sako ammunition that is unavailable here. I wish to shoot it with a scope. Some handloads I have tried will approximate the Sako regulation load. It's not a surprise that when the scope is attached the groups from the two barrels diverge, so they will need to be adjusted.
The only Canadian smith I know of with this skill is Nick Makinson, but when I contacted him he said he is nearing retirement and no longer takes on that type of work. I did locate JJ Perodeau in the USA, and would be confident in his work, but would like to avoid the international permits and shipping expense and hassle. Any Suggestions?
 
The only other gunsmith in Canada that I would trust to the job other than Nick, is Les Paul. He's also semi-retired, has a huge backlog of projects ( including mine!), and it may be years before it's completed even if he'll take on the job.
 
I have loaded and sighted a few double rifles, both o/u and sxs.
I assume you mean that the bullets diverge after some set distance that was likely the aim point with the iron sights?
You also say that you handload for the rifle. Normally I have found that with LOTS of trial and error with powder weights, powder speeds and bullet weights and type I have been able to find happiness.
One of my favorites is a BRNO 584 9.3x74 o/u. I use a scope on it and have found loads that I have used at 200+ m with great accuracy.
You of course may have tried to find that load already, but to alter the bbls is such a drastic step, I just want to see if you tried many loads to try and satisfy your requirements?

Make no mistake, it usually involves a compromise than the fabled 4 shots in a one hole group.
For my BRNO for example, the lower bbl is dead on at 50-100yds with the upper being about 1.5 inches directly above. I do not know where they converge but it beyond the range I worry about.
The iron sights will strike at 50 yds close enough to centre that it is not worth worrying about.
 
farshot said:
I have loaded and sighted a few double rifles, both o/u and sxs.
I assume you mean that the bullets diverge after some set distance that was likely the aim point with the iron sights?
You also say that you handload for the rifle. Normally I have found that with LOTS of trial and error with powder weights, powder speeds and bullet weights and type I have been able to find happiness.
One of my favorites is a BRNO 584 9.3x74 o/u. I use a scope on it and have found loads that I have used at 200+ m with great accuracy.
You of course may have tried to find that load already, but to alter the bbls is such a drastic step, I just want to see if you tried many loads to try and satisfy your requirements?

Make no mistake, it usually involves a compromise than the fabled 4 shots in a one hole group.
For my BRNO for example, the lower bbl is dead on at 50-100yds with the upper being about 1.5 inches directly above. I do not know where they converge but it beyond the range I worry about.
The iron sights will strike at 50 yds close enough to centre that it is not worth worrying about.
Click to expand...

What Farshot said.

Be prepared for a considerable amount of careful "trial and error" load development.

My own experience was with a Verney Carron double rifle in 450/400 3" Nitro Express.
While it came from the factory regulated at 50m with Hornady factory ammo (400g DGX), I wanted to use Swift A-Frames and Barnes Banded Solids for an upcoming dangerous game hunt in Africa.

Between Reloder 15, H4831SC and IMR4831 the next two or three hundred rounds were a real learning experience.
With the first two powders, loads typically shot about 3" high at 50m, producing groups that were about twice the size of the factory test target and, frankly, too high.

Despite being skeptical about trying IMR ("How much difference could there be???") I was pleasantly gob-smacked to have the same basic load produce satisfying snake-eyes with IMR 4831 at the factory-regulated 50m point of aim.

So, my suggestion would be: decide what bullet you want to use and then review your loading manual and select some different powders, keeping careful notes about what your loads are and their results on the range.
 
There are 2 that I can think of,

Precision Arms & Gunsmithing Ltd.
2974 King Road Unit 3
King City, Ontario, Canada L7B 1L6
Telephone: 905.833.7151
Facsimile: 905.833.7155

and

Klaus Hiptmayer in Quebec, but alas he has retired.

So you only have Precision.
 
Thanks all, I don't believe load development will do it in this case, the difference of mounting a big heavy 1.5-8x S&B scope is just too much change in recoil momentum. RePete I had some dealings with Precision, kept my Krieghoff drilling for more than a year and then returned with without the agreed upon work being done and with some damage to the stock. Looks like I may be stuck with shipping to to the USA for regulation.
 
Try contacting Cogswell and Harrison in Ireland. They are still manufacturing high end doubles and have skilled craftsmen with proper training.
 
It would be a lot cheaper just to document where your second barrel's point of impact is and make the correction mentally with your second follow up shot.
 
Most of the current British double rifle makers such as Holland and Holland and Westley Richards are expert in regulating side by sides but the German and Italian makers have more experience with over/unders. Did you consider sending it to Beretta to have it re- regulated? J
 
I should contact Beretta. Good idea. Even though Canadian representative Stoeger is a PIA to deal with on the phone. Nobody ever is at their desk.

I am not interested in "cheaper" and mental corrections, I am more interested in precision and instantly reliable hunting accuracy if I need a follow up shot on running game. I realize the work is going to cost me as much or more than a good bolt action rifle costs. I have figured a budget of C$2000 with the USA gunsmith.
 
Longwalker said:
I am not interested in "cheaper" and mental corrections, I am more interested in precision and instantly reliable hunting accuracy if I need a follow up shot on running game. .
Click to expand...

I would suspect that the gun was precise and reliable with the ammo it was built for. I would think those features could be duplicated with handloads developed from available powder and bullets and that would make more sense to me, than re regulating the barrels

cheers mooncoon
 
It does shoot well with open sights, the problem is that my eyes only allow me to shoot open sights while wearing bifocals, which are impractical for me to wear while hunting. I would love to agree, and may still be convinced, but I don't think I can get it to regulate with hand loads with the scope attached. More experienced persons than me have informed me that it is unrealistic to expect a rifle regulated with iron sights to maintain regulation with a large scope attached. The momentum of recoil takes place at a different arc and with different speed due to the added inertia of the scope. The rifle does seem to shoot OK with a 286 gr. RWS factory load and a 286 gr. Lapua Mega that I handloaded to factory speed. But only with the open sights, with the scope attached the two barrels still group OK individually, but a more than a foot apart at 100 yards.
 
It can be done with handloads and experimenting, just will take some time. My first pair of doubles were BRNO O/U's, .....lots of various loads and bullets, but ended up with loads that shot with a scope and loads for open sights. Then I realized my real calling and went to SXS's, each was still a project but that's what a passion is all about.

Kinda like wives, ............some require more time training!!!
 
Are you free hand shooting or shooting off of a bench/bags? Free standing may reduce the effect of the scope. My side by side shoots well either way but there's about 3/4" shift upwards in poi for both barrels when shooting prone over bags.
Factory loadings were great. My hand loads are faster and I sighted in for slightly closer. By 50 yards they stack 2" apart. 4" at a 100 yards. Good enough for me as I use it while baiting and following up any wounded bears
 
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