double rifles under $1500

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I've decided that instead of bolts and levers I need to get a double rifle.
What would you recommend for under $1500. It's purpose would be hunting without a scope in North America. So far, I've found only one suitable candidate, the Baikal MP-221 "ARTEMIDA" Side-by-Side Rifle:
http://www.baikalinc.ru/en/company/99.html

Epps has the 30.06 caliber for about a thousand. The other consideration would be the caliber. The available ones:
7,62x51 (.308Win)
.30-06 Springfield
.45-70 Gov't
I'm partial to the 45.70 but how often does one go out for grizzlies?
 
In my opinion, any double rifle under about $4000(new) is not worth buying. There are a very few used ones for $1500 that may be worth a look, but I doubt that you will find one. Double rifles require meticulous hand fitting and regulation of the barrels, and if this is not done correctly the rifle will be a frustration to use. Side by sides are more finicky than over/unders. Valmet/Tikka made one O/U that had a user-adjustable spacer for barrel regulation. The Model 412 is built OK but is very thick and kinda clunky. It does have the advantage of interchangeable shotgun barrels to add to the versatility. Rimmed cartridges are nearly always a better choice for doubles unless the maker has designed a very, very good spring loaded extractor system. There is no free lunch with regards to double rifles I'm afraid.
 
I appreciate your comments. The Baikal also has the adjustable regulation. What possible regulation problems could arise if the rifle is to be used for close range hunting without a scope?
 
generally I agree - a cheap side x side double is just that> However, I did buy a Baikal in 30-06> i Have other doubles so I do know a little about them.

First, the Baikal will not be found in 45-70 (or I believe any of the other caliber listed) the 45-70 was put on hold (or whatever) following performance problems during development.

The 30-06, while crude, is not a bad little rifle. The trigegrs are about 7 pounds, like a shotgun, not great but not horrible.

The wood is better wood then I had expected, a walnut I believe - not birch or poplar.

the right bbl may be "regulated" by turning a little wheel in between the bbls that flexes the bbls. Mine shot within 1/2 inch at 50 yds out of the box with 52 gr 760 powder and remington 180 gr bulk sptzers. I didnt chronograph but I expect it to be about 2600 ft/s from my other rifles) Anything more made opening difficult.


The free bore is generous, and I loaded up a bunch of round nose 180 gr to see if I can get a little better performance from the rifle without the risk of seizing it up.

I had a scope on it to work the rifle up and to see how it shot - for a 1000$ -- your decision - a grand is still a grand, but it is a handy robust little guy.

Other doubles start at $4000 (but for the Tikka 412/512 as mentioned) and up you go. I hunt with them often - love them all and have killed many animals with them. To me they add some romance to the hunt when one can choose any rifle in the world to kill at long range with large scopes and flat shooting rifles - kind of a step up from black powder in a way
 
BTW -- I do agree that rimmed rounds are better, but Baikal and other Euro makers have made "cheap" single shots and combination guns forever with little spring extractors and the ones that are in my Baikal appear to be fine.

I Also agree that do not kid yourself - a double rifle that does not shoot to regulation is a most frustrating rifle -- even at close range - it will drive you crazy trying to figure it out.
 
farshot said:
generally I agree - a cheap side x side double is just that> However, I did buy a Baikal in 30-06> i Have other doubles so I do know a little about them.

First, the Baikal will not be found in 45-70 (or I believe any of the other caliber listed) the 45-70 was put on hold (or whatever) following performance problems during development.

The 30-06, while crude, is not a bad little rifle. The trigegrs are about 7 pounds, like a shotgun, not great but not horrible.

The wood is better wood then I had expected, a walnut I believe - not birch or poplar.

the right bbl may be "regulated" by turning a little wheel in between the bbls that flexes the bbls. Mine shot within 1/2 inch at 50 yds out of the box with 52 gr 760 powder and remington 180 gr bulk sptzers. I didnt chronograph but I expect it to be about 2600 ft/s from my other rifles) Anything more made opening difficult.


The free bore is generous, and I loaded up a bunch of round nose 180 gr to see if I can get a little better performance from the rifle without the risk of seizing it up.

I had a scope on it to work the rifle up and to see how it shot - for a 1000$ -- your decision - a grand is still a grand, but it is a handy robust little guy.

Other doubles start at $4000 (but for the Tikka 412/512 as mentioned) and up you go. I hunt with them often - love them all and have killed many animals with them. To me they add some romance to the hunt when one can choose any rifle in the world to kill at long range with large scopes and flat shooting rifles - kind of a step up from black powder in a way
Click to expand...

FWIW the Fabarm Asper starts at $2999. Still much more, but it is a pretty good value.
 
I was excited about the Baikal...until I went and handled one in person. I didn't buy it. I posted a bunch of pictures on here after I handled it in the store. Even the way the rifle sits at your shoulder is odd. I strongly suggest saving your money and buying a different double - the Fabarm is much nicer.
 
The Fabarm is a very nice rifle for the money -- extremely well built and finished and a nice handling rifle. My only quible is that it is a single trigger and i have long weaned myself from those in favour of the double trigger.

One person compared this Baikal to their o/u model (with the space between the bbls) set on its side. The o/u model has been around for long time in Australia and other countries and it is regarded as a good accurate rifle. The extractors are the same as in the o/u model I believe so they are well tested.

Mine is starting to loosen up a bit, and it locks up real nice and smooth.

BTW - with double rifles, you dont push the envelope when it comes to relaoding. Sticking shells, whether rimmed or not, are deadly in a double. If you want to shoot magnum loads, better use a bolt, cause even a single will give you grief. Traditionally, the rimmed version of a round willbe slightly less powerful. eg 8x57 rimmed is slightly lower velocity compared to the same factory loads for the non-rimmed 8x57. Just that little margin of pressure that allows easy extraction.

I will stand by my like of the Baikal for now (i willbe the first to yell if it craps out) and continue to work with it. A gunsmith that knows Baikals says it best: "strong like bull", can be accurate but none too glamerous.

But for people wanting to build their own light weight double on a shotgun frame -- why bother, if you wanted to, you could finish and fix (solder) the stamped steel filler strip between the bbls of the Baikal and set the regulation for good. The bbls are fine, the trigger may nbeed a little smoothing, and you are good to go.

Supposedly, these have the intercepting sears to prevent doubling, a feature found only on certain expensive doubles - I cant say for sure, but from what I have read it appears to be so. and I HATE when a rifle doubles, and trust me, it happens in all sorts of expensive rifles.

o ya -- the sights are not the best, i have been shooting mine with a Dr. Optic on the 11mm rail that is on the rifle - with my eyes, it is better then irons anyhow. But to change out the iron sights would be easy.
 
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