Dual citizen importing ammo

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Beriky

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Hey,

I'm a dual citizen wanting to import cheap ammo from the states. I see that according to Canadian laws I can import up to 5000 rounds without an import license. From the locked US Ammo import thread, it says I would need a export permit from the ATF/Homeland Security to be allowed to bring out ammo from the US.

From what I can find, and, that's admittedly very little on an extensive google search, US citizens that are bringing ammunition either through Canada to Alaska or simply into Canada to hunt are not affected by this law. Does this law only apply to Canadian citizens and not US citizens? Or are all of these Americans unwittingly smuggling ammunition from the US?
 
This is why:

Hunting in Canada, and transiting Canada (to another US state or territory) are exceptions to the US State Department export regulations regarding ammunition. All firearms, many parts, and various other "munitions of war" require an export permit to be removed permanently from the USA for purposes other than those discussed above. There are other exceptions (moving being one), none of which are applicable to your situation. Don't do it. Don't talk about it...you will get flamed. The topic has been beaten to death on here.
 
Can I get a link to learn more about the exceptions? Moving is actually a legitimate reason because I will be moving back to Canada in a years time.
 
I'm Not A Lawyer... But I Can Read...

And I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...

YMMV!

22 C.F.R. § 123.16 Exemptions of general applicability.


(a) The following exemptions apply to exports of unclassified defense articles for which no approval is needed from the Directorate of Defense Trade Controls. These exemptions do not apply to: Proscribed destinations under §126.1 of this subchapter; exports for which Congressional notification is required (see §123.15 of this subchapter); MTCR articles; Significant Military Equipment (SME); and may not be used by persons who are generally ineligible as described in §120.1(c) of this subchapter. All shipments of defense articles, including those to and from Canada, require a Shipper's Export Declaration (SED) or notification letter. If the export of a defense article is exempt from licensing, the SED must cite the exemption. Refer to §123.22 for Shipper's Export Declaration and letter notification requirements.

(b) The following exports are exempt from the licensing requirements of this subchapter.

[...snip...]

(6) For exemptions for firearms and ammunition for personal use refer to §123.17.

22 C.F.R. § 123.17 Exports of firearms and ammunition.

[...snip...]

e) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit U.S. persons to export without a license ammunition for nonautomatic firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section if the quantity does not exceed 1,000 cartridges (or rounds) in any shipment. The ammunition must also be for personal use and not for resale or other transfer of ownership. The foregoing exemption is also not applicable to the personnel referred to in §123.18 [members of the military have a separate exemption].

Definitions

[...snip...]

§ 120.15 U.S. person.

U.S. person means a person (as defined in §120.14 of this part) who is a lawful permanent resident as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(20) or who is a protected individual as defined by 8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3). It also means any corporation, business association, partnership, society, trust, or any other entity, organization or group that is incorporated to do business in the United States. It also includes any governmental (federal, state or local) entity. It does not include any foreign person as defined in §120.16 of this part.


8 U.S.C. 1324b(a)(3)

[...snip...]

(3) ``Protected individual'' defined

As used in paragraph (1), the term ``protected individual''
means an individual who--

(A) is a citizen or national of the United States, or
(B) is an alien who is lawfully admitted for permanent residence...

[...snip...]
 
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Looks like I will have no problem exporting from the US. According to the GPO's website this law was changed slightly in 2006. By posting it however I was able to figure out the laws to search for: Code of Federal Regulations: International Relations: 123.17 Exports of firearms and ammunition.

The pertinent sections are:

(c) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit U.S. persons to export temporarily from the United States without a license not more than three nonautomatic firearms in Category I(a) of §121.1 of this subchapter and not more than 1,000 cartridges therefor, provided that:
(1) A declaration by the U.S. person and an inspection by a customs
officer is made;
(2) The firearms and accompanying ammunition must be with the U.S.
person's baggage or effects, whether accompanied or unaccompanied (but
not mailed); and
(3) They must be for that person's exclusive use and not for
reexport or other transfer of ownership. The foregoing exemption is not
applicable to a crew-member of a vessel or aircraft unless the crew-
member declares the firearms to a Customs officer upon each departure
from the United States, and declares that it is his or her intention to
return the article(s) on each return to the United States. It is also
not applicable to the personnel referred to in Sec. 123.18.


(e) Port Directors of U.S. Customs and Border Protection shall permit U.S. persons to export without a license ammunition for nonautomatic firearms referred to in paragraph (a) of this section if the quantity does not exceed 1,000 cartridges (or rounds) in any shipment. The ammunition must also be for personal use and not for resale or other transfer of ownership. The foregoing exemption is also not applicable to the personnel referred to in §123.18.

Source: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2008/aprqtr/22cfr123.17.htm
 
I would have included the firearms exemption for you as well but you only asked about ammunition in your OP...

Being a dually has its privileges... my effort lately has been to find a Mailboxes Etc. as close to the border as possible and plan a few road trips over the next couple of months... 1000 rounds at a time...

Montana here I come... :)

Dave.
 
I understand the statute(s) in this matter FULLY, but, If it is such an affront to national security to have a non resident 'alien' in possesion of a box 270 or 12 gauge skeet why do 'they' not put up posters claiming its 'unlawfull'

You walk into a state side convenience store and every square foot on the wall and counters is plastered with " under 21 blah blah blah " " gasoline to be used in internal combuation engines blah blah blah " " do not drink during pregnancy " " the surgeon general advises blah blah blah "

Just seems that if it were sooooooo Inherently Insidious to posses why not at least have a 'poster' where said ammunition is sold Informing ' non residents':confused:

- Dennis Miller Rant Off:redface:
 
Well said man... and I don't have an answer. My guess is myopia... that is, they can only see things from their perspective and so what if some Canuk gets his ass busted 'cause we didn't have a sign... that might not be fair over all, but I'm guessing that's part of it anyway... oh, my poor myopic countrymen...

Dave.


jennis said:
I understand the statute(s) in this matter FULLY, but, If it is such an affront to national security to have a non resident 'alien' in possesion of a box 270 or 12 gauge skeet why do 'they' not put up posters claiming its 'unlawfull'

You walk into a state side convenience store and every square foot on the wall and counters is plastered with " under 21 blah blah blah " " gasoline to be used in internal combuation engines blah blah blah " " do not drink during pregnancy " " the surgeon general advises blah blah blah "

Just seems that if it were sooooooo Inherently Insidious to posses why not at least have a 'poster' where said ammunition is sold Informing ' non residents':confused:

- Dennis Miller Rant Off:redface:
Click to expand...
 
It just seems 'weird' you travel the highways and biways of Wash State and every 5 miles on a billboard it states " Seatbelt use mandatory Day and Night " you would think a 'bureaucracy aligned with redundancy' would have signage at 'places of purchase'........I dont have a masters degree so it is all a little fuzzy:p
 
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