Eastern Ontario - Where to begin looking for a BPCR? Pitfalls to avoid!

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sampson.d.ramm

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Hello all;

As a potentially entry level buyer of a new or used BP rifle (not new to shooting but new to black powder), any suggestions would be appreciated WRT where to start looking and whom to avoid.
Some initial research here and elsewhere has shown a few vendors with an excellent rep, such as TradeX and others as, "not so good".

I have been reading the forums here (and others) and have seen some ideas and experiences regarding models and caliber. (not interested in muzzle loaders...yet) and I am leaning either towards a Highwall (45-70 / 45-90) reproduction or antique, or a Remington rolling block 50-70 (Swedish).

I do also intend on reloading my own at some point and have been doing lots of research for sourcing molds / presses, powder, ect.

Any suggestions or feedback provided would be very much appreciated.


Thank You.
 
A good start would be with any BPCR shooters at your local club. They hold a wealth of knowledge and experience and can steer you in the right direction as well as save you many trials.

Here are some websites that have lots of information;
http://longrangebpcr.com/
http://www.bpcr.net/
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/

Equipment;
http://www.blackpowderspg.com/
http://www.buffaloarms.com/
http://www.shilohrifle.com/
http://csharpsarms.com/
http://www.marstar.ca/dynamic/index.jsp

Good luck, let us know how you make out....
 
For an antique a martini Henry is hard to beat for durability and simplicity but brass is expensive. You break an extractor on a swede roller, you have an irritation on your hand. Pedersoli makes an excellent rolling block.

If you're going for a repro I'd only consider the miroku high walls (complicated internals) or the reproductions from the USA, mostly C. Sharps in Montana.

Start with a 45-70 if you go new, you don't need the longer shells and they only make things more complicated if you never reloaded. In this caliber the Lyman 457125 or equivalent of the 500 grain government round nose, is probably the easiest one to get really shooting well.

The new guns all cost the same regardless what they're chambered in, but they sure as heck don't cost the same to feed or have equal learning curve, 45-70 is the baseline. There's hundreds of ready made and succesful match winning recipes all over the net and in print, so the hard works been done for you with that cartridge.
 
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Thanks for the reply and the info.

So far, everything i'm learning is pointing me toward the Swedish 50-70 rollingblock but the Uberti rollingblock and the highwall reproductions are a close second.

The reproductions of the highwall and rollingblock are between 700 to 1000 USD...not unreasonable and look really like nice, well crafted weapons.

At almost 500 cdn for a Swedish rollingblock 50-70 (original condition) it seems like a viable entry level choice. Obviously i'm going to have a "smith" evaluate the shootability of any antique and then I will have to slug the barrel and make a casting of the breech to get a start point before I choose my reloading components.

The search continues...
 
hickstick_10 said:
Start with a 45-70 if you go new, you don't need the longer shells and they only make things more complicated if you never reloaded. In this caliber the Lyman 457125 or equivalent of the 500 grain government round nose, is probably the easiest one to get really shooting well.

The new guns all cost the same regardless what they're chambered in, but they sure as heck don't cost the same to feed or have equal learning curve, 45-70 is the baseline. There's hundreds of ready made and successful match winning recipes all over the net and in print, so the hard works been done for you with that cartridge.
Click to expand...

Thanks! Agreed, everyone I know shooting BP seems to have a 45-70.

As for the learning curve, I welcome learning "new info" and having to think.
With all due respect to the "7.62 X 39" crowd, anyone can grab a case of surplus ammo and bang away with 1000+ rounds. Done that and it gets boring very quickly.

The shooting is only half the solution, engineering new loads (based on posted and personal experience) and having to learn what may be possible and trying new things is the attraction.
 
I have H&R "Buffalo Classics" in both 45-70 and 45-90 (rechambered). That is a decent entry level, "try it out" rifle at less than $500.

I also have a Swedish M67 Rolling Block in full military garb that I have shot at Milshoot matches at EOSC. Note that they are in 12.7X44R, not 50-70. The two are very similar, but a reamer would have to be run into the 12.7X44R chamber to use 50-70 brass, or the 50-70 brass would need to be trimmed (as I do).
 
Andy said:
I have H&R "Buffalo Classics" in both 45-70 and 45-90 (rechambered). That is a decent entry level, "try it out" rifle at less than $500.

I also have a Swedish M67 Rolling Block in full military garb that I have shot at Milshoot matches at EOSC. Note that they are in 12.7X44R, not 50-70. The two are very similar, but a reamer would have to be run into the 12.7X44R chamber to use 50-70 brass, or the 50-70 brass would need to be trimmed (as I do).
Click to expand...


What diameter bullet do you shoot in your M67? I am interested in the ones Trade ex rechambered to 50/70 but from what I see in my Cartridges of the world book the bullets are .502. My trapdoor 50/70 is close to .515.
 
I would lean towards a rolling block because there is less inside to get fouled by black powder residues accumulated during shooting. If you do not want to shoot long range silhouette, there is a small frame Italian Sharp's rifle in 38-55 on the market. The qualifier about not shooting long range silhouette is because the 38-55 bullet may not be heavy enough to dependably knock over the rams. I also think that some guns (unknown action)are being produced in 40-65 which would be a nice caliber to shoot

cheers mooncoon
 
Quite a few rolling blocks have been re-barrelled in 40-65 in our club for BP silhouette. We do not shoot sanctioned BP silhouette matches at the Saskatoon ML club because we only have 300 metres on our long range. Those who travel to sanctioned BP silhouette use 45-70 predominantly, in my experience.
Rolling blocks are/were chosen because of the economy of starting out primarily, and availability. You need sights, about as expensive as the assembled rolling block rifle, unless you can make your own.
Shiloh Sharps are much preferred over rolling blocks or Pedersoli Sharps, or other makers/actions in the highly competitive crowd here.
There are lots of other rifle makers, like my B78 Browning, and those of us who are more interested in fun shooting than winning big matches.
You can get into the BP cartridge game at many levels of expenditure and effort but it is a sport that leads you to making equipment, or assembling your outfit over time, unless you have a near bottomless pocket book.
 
I agree with a lot of what has been said. I'm partial to the Montana made rifles, as well as the Miroku BPCR models.

The .45-70 is a great choice, but don't overlook the .40-65. I shoot one in silhouette and midrange BPTR and prefer it to the .45-70. Brass is easily made from .45-70 by running it through a .40-65 sizing die. Plenty of excellent bullet designs are available for that cartridge.

If I were looking for an option that wasn't too expensive, but would shoot as well as the American made rifles I'd look for a used Miroku highwall.

Chris.
 
Oh, one place to look is Ellwood Epps. They are a board sponsor and are nice people to deal with. I've bought a couple of nice original rifles from them. My only complaint is that they are not so skilled or consistent when it comes to evaluating bore condition. They often have a few single shots in stock.

Chris.
 
mooncoon said:
I would lean towards a rolling block because there is less inside to get fouled by black powder residues accumulated during shooting. If you do not want to shoot long range silhouette, there is a small frame Italian Sharp's rifle in 38-55 on the market. The qualifier about not shooting long range silhouette is because the 38-55 bullet may not be heavy enough to dependably knock over the rams. I also think that some guns (unknown action)are being produced in 40-65 which would be a nice caliber to shoot

cheers mooncoon
Click to expand...

Agreed. From what I have been learning silhouette will be out (for now) short of traveling some distance. Range here is only 250-300 max. Next nearest one is over 3+ hours away in Petawawa...

However, as this is not a "must have now or else" purchase, I will be keeping my options open and continue to learn and do more research.
 
Andy said:
I have H&R "Buffalo Classics" in both 45-70 and 45-90 (rechambered). That is a decent entry level, "try it out" rifle at less than $500.

I also have a Swedish M67 Rolling Block in full military garb that I have shot at Milshoot matches at EOSC. Note that they are in 12.7X44R, not 50-70. The two are very similar, but a reamer would have to be run into the 12.7X44R chamber to use 50-70 brass, or the 50-70 brass would need to be trimmed (as I do).
Click to expand...

Thank You.
Still learning about the Swedish roller, lots of variants and some confusing info out there. I only referred to it as the "50-70" as that is how they were advertised as being converted to on Tradex.
Still lots for me to learn for sure...
 
gunlaker said:
They are a board sponsor and are nice people to deal with. I've bought a couple of nice original rifles from them.

Chris.
Click to expand...

My first stop was to as many board sponsors as I could hit looking for info, reloading supply availability and prices of new and used.

Would prefer to buy in Canada....not only to avoid the import hassles.
 
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