Elevation Issues.

K

keegs

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So while I have my position fairly solid. I am having some slight elevation issues. I am 99.9% certain this is the way I am shouldering the rifle, and my consistsancy in doing so. I’m looking at putting a mec contact onto my TR rifle to eliminate this. Has anyone tried one on a high power, or any other style of hooked butt plate on their TR rifle?

I have to keep to the bisley rule of no more then 20mm in curve.
 
The first question is at what distance are you having elevation issues?

Second is under what lighting conditions are you having elevation issues?

Third question is the extreme spread of the ammo you are using?

Are you familiar with the old adage... Lights up, sights up?

This is in reference to light refraction under various illumination levels. Dial down for cloud cover and dial up when the cloud clears. Can be 1/2 minute either way.

As for your ammo... are you using fire formed cases or full length resized?

How are you weighing your powder? For long range the two most influential elements in reducing ES is measuring powder charge to at least 2 decimal places (which means you can toss that beam scale) and if not using fire formed cases, at least use only a minimal shoulder bump with FL dies.

Then there's neck tension, so you want to control that with Redding bushing dies.... and use good brass with a consistent weight and neck wall thickness.

Are you weight sorting your ammo?

Are these verticals happening under variable wind conditions? If yes, are you accounting for aerodynamic jump? That's when a wind from the right blows the bullet up and left and a wind from the left blows the bullet down and right... you need to anticipate and account for that especially well in blustery conditions.

If you have a grip on the above, then well... could be your eyes and sight picture... If not that... then maybe it is your position, trigger pull technique or anticipation of recoil.

A lot of possibles here before drawing your position into question.
 
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First answer-all distances but as i go further back it can be more noticable. I lost the 1000yard in guyana because i sent a shot perfectly centered into the upper 3. At 300M it will put me to the top and touching the 5 ring. Perfectly centered.

I know it’s not anticipating. Maynard caught me out when i was anticipating it. And i go to two oclock in the four ring if i anticpate.

Second answer, is all lighing conditions.

Third answer is I dont honestly have a clue. It’s happened to me at the dcra using their ammo, guyana using supplied ammo, and my ammo which is controlled. Hydraulic press to measure seating tension and batch sorted, amp annealed, lapua cases, and cci br primer.

I’m using a riles front with my iris set to cut the corners of the target, and a simple 510 installed in a warner longer range as a rear site

If i shoot electronics with someone else who is fast, i dont remove the gun from my shoulder, and haven’t noticed it, but if i am relayed with someone slow, i’ll pop it out, and then i get the errant shots perfectly straight up.

I stayed slung and when shooting good had a guy put a piece of tape on my cheek rest to make sure i was positioning the same each time in regards to cheek weld.

It’s driving me nuts trying to figure out.
 
One more important question.... Did you beat Tom?

After all that's all that matters... right? wink wink

Sounds like you have things pretty well dialed in.

Ok, here's a suggestion....

I know to a TR guy this is going to sound like training wheels... but...

You could try putting a scope on the rifle for practice and try watching what you are doing in high resolution.

Everything is exaggerated at 24X.... maybe you can spot what's going on.
 
Cheek pressure is usually the culprit when I get elevation shots in TR. And this can often be a result of mis placement of the butt plate when re shouldering the rifle. If I’m diligent I put my thumb at the top of the butt plate and turn to look at its position on the pad of my shooting coat as I place it into my shoulder.

If I find myself unconsciously jamming my face into the stock to get sight alignment ( I’m being a tad hyperbolic there but you get what I mean!), my neck muscles will relax as the shot breaks causing the muzzle to drop and give me a low shot. Vice versa for light cheek pressure where the neck muscles relax and my cheek “drops” onto the stock when the shot breaks tilting the muzzle up, giving me a high shot.

I always try to have the feeling that I am simply resting the weight of my head on the cheek piece, and neither holding it off slightly or pushing into it to get good sight alignment. I hope this makes sense it’s a bit difficult to articulate.

And the head position variable for me comes from how I shoulder the rifle on each shot.

I also get high/low shots from poor NPA where my elevation is off slightly and I unconsciously compensate by either holding the muzzle up slightly or “pushing” it down. Again the result of any abnormal tension in your hold is that when the shot breaks you relax and return to natural NPA. I’m talking small amounts of tension again.

Hope that all makes sense.
 
keegs said:
Aproximately 1800
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If you haven't adjusted your load recently, I would definitely do so. Barrels wear and loads will change. All you need is an effective change of 0.1 to 0.2gr of powder to go from waterline to vertical nightmare.

Retune your load at 300 and I suspect a small tweak in powder will bring things back to normal

Good luck.

Jerry
 
It could be something as simple as a 1/4” vertical adjustment needed on your butt plate. Or how your jacket fits in the shoulder.
 
big boar said:
So would raising the but plate 1/4-1/2" make that much of a difference? What about the LOP of the stock?
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Short answer yes 100%. LOP the best way I have had it explained it going to mess up your position. Paul Archer had a really good sit down with me to talk about it. I would see if you can catch him, Tom, or Dave Adams at nationals this year, and they can explain it really well in person.


Maples. I beat him in the drinking competitions. He’s kinda a light weight. Doesnt like how I mix drinks. I put in for official bartender for the team going to Trinidad this year, but suffice to say my request is being ignored.

Maynard with stock fitting the jacket, do you think putting a sissy pad on my current metal cheese grater would help?
 
Instead of changing the LOP on the buttstock, moving your handstop ahead by about 1/2 inch will tighten your position. However this may not solve the problem if you are not getting a consistent butt placement to shoulder fit. When I run into this problem it is usually because the take up buckles on the shoulder of my jacket are loose. Adding a sissy pad under the jacket will give you less feel on where the butt pad is sitting on your shoulder.
Dry firing with your SCATT or RIKKA trainer might show what is happening with different shoulder/butt placements.
 
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