Tested out three different lots of Eley team today in the Savage BV- none shot as well as I'd expect for a quarter a bang. Most groups showed three rounds going into well under an inch at 100 yards, then one hot flier and one dropped shot. Not impressed at all, especially when greasy Standard Club groups three times smaller on average... guess I'll be sticking to Lapua products. Bummer cause I totally have bought into the 'shiny object' factor/ fad of the EPS bullet.
Eley Team: non-performer
- Thread starter rimfiremac
- Start date
I did not have good luck with my only trial of the Eley Match, with the EPS bullet in my Savage BTVS. Eley Target Rifle Rifle shot quite well, and the Pistol version even better. Also a small sample of old Eley Tenex shot extremely well. However all of these other ones had the round nose bullet. My suspicion and there was some physical evidence (see photo), was that I was magazine feeding, and the EPS bullets were being shaved by the chamber. To confirm I would have to single feed a box and test them again. Have not done it so far. Eley makes very good ammo, so I think it has to be something like this causing the problem.
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My Savage MkII BV loves the cheaper club, makes one hole groups all day long, but hates the more expensive Team. I tried single loading it but it made no difference... Tenex is beautiful stuff though, most accurate I have ever shot. I'm going to have to do some more load testing myself with the Eley, set some bench marks.
Different ammo
This just shows that you have to try a variety of ammo in your own rifle to see what it likes. Just because a person buys the most expensive ammo he can find is no guarantee that it will perform better than some cheaper stuff.
This does not mean that the expensive ammo is no good, it only means that it no good in that particular rifle.
What we also have to consider is that most serious target shooters have Match chambers and throats in their rifles, and the Premium stuff is really designed for these tighter tolerance chambers. Ordinary production guns have much more tolerance in their chamber dimensions, because of their mass production method.
What this does mean is that one particular type or brand of ammo is not right for all rifles. It is up to the shooter to try various makes to find out what is the most accurate for his own particular rifle.
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This just shows that you have to try a variety of ammo in your own rifle to see what it likes. Just because a person buys the most expensive ammo he can find is no guarantee that it will perform better than some cheaper stuff.
This does not mean that the expensive ammo is no good, it only means that it no good in that particular rifle.
What we also have to consider is that most serious target shooters have Match chambers and throats in their rifles, and the Premium stuff is really designed for these tighter tolerance chambers. Ordinary production guns have much more tolerance in their chamber dimensions, because of their mass production method.
What this does mean is that one particular type or brand of ammo is not right for all rifles. It is up to the shooter to try various makes to find out what is the most accurate for his own particular rifle.
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Hi. The price of .22 ammo has nothing to do with whether or not the rifle will shoot it well. Like buffdog says, you have to try a box of as many brands as you can to find the ammo your rifle shoots best. Applies to .22 handguns too.
Team is not the highest performance/ highest dollar fodder out there by a long shot.
My intention was to try out Team to see if the EPS bullet would perform better-than-average without jumping into the mega-bucks arena, and was surprised to find that not only did my rifle not shoot a single lot well enough to warrant further 'investment', it didn't shoot *any* lots well.
Posting here was to see if that discovery was common across the board; which by the sounds of it, Team is not worth half of its msrp.
Hey RonAKA,
I tried Team in a Match 64 as well, single load, with similar results. I thought something along the same lines, that there might be some shaving going on in the BV when chambering, but from a performance perspective there was no difference in group size. And the 64 shoots 15% better than the BV on average.
Granted the Team ammo comes from the Match rejects bin, but man, these things are total duds for performance. I would have expected better.
I tried Team in a Match 64 as well, single load, with similar results. I thought something along the same lines, that there might be some shaving going on in the BV when chambering, but from a performance perspective there was no difference in group size. And the 64 shoots 15% better than the BV on average.
Granted the Team ammo comes from the Match rejects bin, but man, these things are total duds for performance. I would have expected better.
Absolutely correct. I saw a comment from another poster that need to be addressed: changing a barrel on a 10/22 does not make it a match rifle. Those match rifles start at $6k stock with no sights on. The sights will set you back another grand. Then with high grade ammo you can shoot through a cheerio at 50 yards with no crumbs mess.
Eley does best (and often is the best) in tight, custom barrels.
If you look at the results form the American Rimfire Association Benchrest Nationals, 110 out of the 117 shooters were using one of the Tenex derivatives (Tenex, Match, Team):
http://ara.benchrest.net/10OutdoorResults/National-Tourn-Equipm.htm
That doesn't mean it will perform in stuff like Savages and CZs...
I've found nothing that beats it in my Lilja barrel.
If you look at the results form the American Rimfire Association Benchrest Nationals, 110 out of the 117 shooters were using one of the Tenex derivatives (Tenex, Match, Team):
http://ara.benchrest.net/10OutdoorResults/National-Tourn-Equipm.htm
That doesn't mean it will perform in stuff like Savages and CZs...
I've found nothing that beats it in my Lilja barrel.
Absolutely correct. I saw a comment from another poster that need to be addressed: changing a barrel on a 10/22 does not make it a match rifle. Those match rifles start at $6k stock with no sights on. The sights will set you back another grand. Then with high grade ammo you can shoot through a cheerio at 50 yards with no crumbs mess.
True but the purpose of going to a target rifle rifle based on a 10/22 with a heavy barrel is to get a lot of improvement for the minimal amount of money. After the first $1,000 the amount of accuracy gain per dollar spents starts to drop. Thankfully I have never been attacked by a chipmunk using a Cheerio as a shield. otherwise I might be willing to spend that kind of money. One of the guys in our club picked up a BSA target rifle with complete set of dioploter sights fro $200 from an estate sale......sigh never happens to me.
Don't be sad, when you get into it, well you want more, and of course you have to pour the $$$. It's like everything else...
Results with .22LR ammo certainly depend on the particular gun's preference.
I use a stock Savage BTVSS for 100 yd shooting. With Eley Club the gun will consistently group at just over MOA. My wife's customized 10-22, with GM barrel, will not even feed the stuff. But with SK+ she easily matches my results.
For 50 yds I use a Savage BV. I have found Federal Champion Target consistently outperforms Eley Sport. A friend who owns the same gun gets exactly the opposite results.
The finickiness of .22 rifles is one of the enduring mysteries of shooting.
I use a stock Savage BTVSS for 100 yd shooting. With Eley Club the gun will consistently group at just over MOA. My wife's customized 10-22, with GM barrel, will not even feed the stuff. But with SK+ she easily matches my results.
For 50 yds I use a Savage BV. I have found Federal Champion Target consistently outperforms Eley Sport. A friend who owns the same gun gets exactly the opposite results.
The finickiness of .22 rifles is one of the enduring mysteries of shooting.
I was very puzzled by the Eley Match EPS performance. See all my test results in the table below. Match EPS finished dead last in all the subsonic ammo I tested, and well below 5 other Eley loads. All of them were less expensive than the Match EPS, except for Tenex. Tenex actually finished right at the top of the list, but I did not include it in the table as I only shot 5 groups. All the Eley ammo except the Match were regular round nose. I believe Eley still makes a Tenex Pistol which has the round nose. I would like to give that stuff a test. As noted in the earlier post, the only excuse I can dream up for the Match EPS was some bullet shaving.
I have never really bought into the my gun only likes XX brand of ammo, and that cost is not material. Or that a poor gun can shoot poor ammo and make good targets. From the table above clearly subsonic ammo of any brand outshoots HV ammo, and the Ultra HV is even one step worse. On cost I did a regression analysis on the loads I tested and got a 50% correlation between cost and group size. I think it would have been better if I had taken out some of the overpriced Ultra HV stuff. Or if I had limited it to just the subsonic stuff correlation would likely have gone up to (even with the Match EPS in there).
I have never really bought into the my gun only likes XX brand of ammo, and that cost is not material. Or that a poor gun can shoot poor ammo and make good targets. From the table above clearly subsonic ammo of any brand outshoots HV ammo, and the Ultra HV is even one step worse. On cost I did a regression analysis on the loads I tested and got a 50% correlation between cost and group size. I think it would have been better if I had taken out some of the overpriced Ultra HV stuff. Or if I had limited it to just the subsonic stuff correlation would likely have gone up to (even with the Match EPS in there).
Funny thing happened-
I remembered Kris' note that the EPS runs well out of match chambers, so I got to recalling that the TOZ-78-14/ Wildcat TV has a 'semi-match chamber', so I ran some of what I had left over through it.
Shoots like a Banshee from that chamber- had one group of five go into just over a half inch spread at 100, all groups stayed well under an inch. Damn results don't help my ammo 'standardization' efforts any though.
I remembered Kris' note that the EPS runs well out of match chambers, so I got to recalling that the TOZ-78-14/ Wildcat TV has a 'semi-match chamber', so I ran some of what I had left over through it.
Shoots like a Banshee from that chamber- had one group of five go into just over a half inch spread at 100, all groups stayed well under an inch. Damn results don't help my ammo 'standardization' efforts any though.
