Enfield .308 Markings

[Shoot to Live]

Ok I need help with this one. It is a Enfield 7.62 C #4 Mk1 long Branch but my problem is trying to narrow down the history on her. From what I understand the different ser# tell me if it is parkerised or blued and also tells me where it came from so to begin with I will start with this one.
Ser # 95L2861
From what I understand these serial numbers are what has been done to the rifle as far as bluing or parkerizing. But I cannot find anything for the L2. It is parkerised but I want to know if it was suppose to be that way or blued.
91L7, ?????
91L8, blued,
92L0, blued,
93L0, Blued,
93L1, parked,
93L4, blued,
93L6, parked,
93Lx, Blued,
94L0, parked,
94L0, parked,
94L0, park,
94L3, parked, '50, parked,
94L5, receiver blued, 50, barrel Parked, bolt blued, striker blued
94L8, parked,
94L9, parked,
95L1, parked,
95L4, parked,
95L4, parked,
95L9

 

[sunray]

If it's chambered in .308/7.62NATO, it was rebarreled either by/for the DCRA or somebody who found a .308/7.62NATO No. 4 barrel and had it put on. There was no such thing as .308/7.62NATO in 1950. Canadian Arsenals, Longbranch didn't make No. 4's in that calibre anyway.
The serial number really only tells you when it was made. If it was sent to third echelon weapons techs sometime during the rifle's service life, it may or may not have been parkerized by them. More likely to have been done by whoever changed the barrel.

 

[Lee Enfield]

You have the info clipped from the survey right there:
the change-over from blueing to parkerizing occurred between @ 93L1 - 93L5

As "sunray" said, ALL of the 7.62mm's are conversions from .303 Brit.

There is no way of telling who got what gun except by additional markings added during the guns previous life-time.

British or other foreign import or proof markings are an indication that the gun could have been exported to a foreign country & re-imported to Canada at some point.

I note that your gun shows signs of re-numbering at some point, but remains with-in the 1950 date serial range.

 

[cantom]

You have a standard 1950 Long Branch rifle, late enough in production to have been parkerized by the factory. The serial numbers of all Long Branches have the L in them, quite normal. I see no signs of renumbering btw.

If it's been converted to 7.62 by the DCRA or similar, it'll have a four digit number stamped into the receiver ring on the right and on the top of the bolt handle, with the maple leaf proof mark. At the end of the barrel there should be no bayonet lugs and 7.62 CA. If not then it's not a normal DCRA type conversion done at Canadian Arsenals.
Could we see a clear closeup pic of the extractor on the removed bolt?

 

[Shoot to Live]

You have a standard 1950 Long Branch rifle, late enough in production to have been parkerized by the factory. The serial numbers of all Long Branches have the L in them, quite normal. I see no signs of renumbering btw.

If it's been converted to 7.62 by the DCRA or similar, it'll have a four digit number stamped into the receiver ring on the right and on the top of the bolt handle, with the maple leaf proof mark. At the end of the barrel there should be no bayonet lugs and 7.62 CA. If not then it's not a normal DCRA type conversion done at Canadian Arsenals.
Could we see a clear closeup pic of the extractor on the removed bolt?

I think it has those markings, I will have to check wehn I get home tonight,.

 

[stencollector]

I see no signs of renumbering btw.

I disagree. Below the 8 you can see the remnants of a 0. Below the 5L you can see what look like a 1L, or L?. The existing serial numbers look huge compared to the factory numbers. Since the gun is likely renumbered, the finish will be whatever the shop/person who renumebred it used to clean up the burnished area, and will net neccesarily fit into the serial number/finish type patterns.

 

[woodchopper]

I disagree. Below the 8 you can see the remnants of a 0. Below the 5L you can see what look like a 1L, or L?. The existing serial numbers look huge compared to the factory numbers. Since the gun is likely renumbered, the finish will be whatever the shop/person who renumebred it used to clean up the burnished area, and will net neccesarily fit into the serial number/finish type patterns.

your right and the numbers are bigger then the normal serial number stamps.

I'm interested in that reinforcing bolt, odd looking, its a bolt.

I have a No4Mk1/3 Savage that is a DCRA conversion, early one with only a 3 digit conversion number that also has a Bolt in the reinforcing cross strap area.

 

[stencollector]

Could be that the bolt was used in place of the standard pin/rivet so as to tighten the stock onto the action in an attempt to further accurize the rifle. It would aslo appear to be peened so as to not loosen with firing.

 

[cantom]

Could be that the bolt was used in place of the standard pin/rivet so as to tighten the stock onto the action in an attempt to further accurize the rifle. It would aslo appear to be peened so as to not loosen with firing.

You and Lee Enfield are right... Yes, those other numbers are sure visible if you just look...and yes, the font is bigger.
What the heck? Someone took a lot of care to smooth the area out and make it look good...more so than on many Cno7 put togethers I've seen.
I've never seen a bolt like that on the forend...the No 4 Mk I/2 conversions I've seen had a threaded rivet inserted into the wood on one side, then a long screw like on a No 4 Mk 2 is threaded in on the other side.
I wonder if this rifle has the frame mounted trigger conversion.

ps After looking again, it looks like the metal piece that goes across the forend at the back is still there so likely is still No 4 Mk I* configuration unless someone cut the saddle in the middle.

Removing the trigger guard will answer that easily enough.

 

[Shoot to Live]

It looks like you guys want more pics? I will upload some more later tonight.

 

[tiriaq]

The 7.62 conversions were done for target shooting purposes. You can almost expect that the rifle would be modified or worked over in one way or another, to enhance performance.

 

[Shoot to Live]

Whoever did the rebarreling on this did a very good job that is why i am trying to get more info on it. It also looks as if it was hardly used either that or taken very good care of. A very nice old lady sold it as her husband died and she didn't want any of his guns around anymore. I lucked out on this one and got it for a good price I think. sorry for the big pics but I suck at taking pictures.

 

[rgg_7]

You have a DCRA conversion. The conversion number is "1253" and appears on the top of the bolt, on the receiver as per your picture and on the barrel under the rear handguard. These were done at CA (Canadian Arsenal) for a very small fee to meet the requirements of target shooters back in the early 60's when the military switched from 303 to 7.62.

You've got a professional job. As well a Parker Hale 5c sight has been added plus a front globe.

Do you have a magazine? These used a 303 mag and were fired single shot.....despite many, many rumors.

It looks like your gun has been modified .....the pic of the muzzle shows a section milled away both sides like a muzzle break...COULD YOU POST SOME PIC's OF THIS DETAIL FOR COMMENT?

Nice Enfield!

 

[rgg_7]

I went back and read the rest of the post....started life as a 1950 Long Branch. The serial number has been restamped on the butt socket...letters are too large and you can see traces of the original sn below it.

Is there a sn on the back of the bolt? 95L would indicate it was made near the end of the program (the 1950 range is 91L to 95L).

 

[Shoot to Live]

The bolt has the 95L2861 stamped on the back. Here are some more pics if this helps. I have a magazine that is for an Enfield bought it a few years ago for $30.00 from Midaway I think it was and it is for the .308. Haven't tried it but kinda hoping it can cycle the rounds good.

This one is the top side of the bolt and matches the second set of numbers on the reciever.

 

[rgg_7]

Often when the rifle was sent to CA it failed to meet hardness criteria and the receiver was replaced. The bolt serial number is the corect configuration as is the DCRA conversion number. It would appear that the receiver was replaced; conversion done:returned to Owner and stamped ( by someone other than CA). CA only were concerned about safety and didn't give 2 hoots about number matching. I've got a similar conversion however the receiver is 1943 and the bolt is 1945.....I was given this explanation by an executive in the DCRA (Colin Brown) a few years ago.

As far as the end of the barrel....first one I have seen done like this. These rifles did not perform consistantly and some folks had them back bored any where from 2 to 3.50". Looking done the muzzle with the bolt open can you judge where the crown starts? Some thought this was the answer. I had one that was backbored...shot very well.....hence sold...conversion "865"(?).

Front sight very low.....I think that this guy was shooting short range.

Check you mag....if Indian made like the 2/2A it won't work...never saw Midway selling correct mags. 7.62 mag is about $100.00 to 140.00 depending on condition however these were never part of the conversion.... they look kind of neat!

 

[Shoot to Live]

Yes, when I look down the barrel the crown is about another 1 to 1.5 inches deeper so probably 2 to 3 inches all together, so good call on that, as far as the mag I don't remember. I know I used it in my Lee Enfield that I changed the barrels on from a .303 to .308 because the barrel was shot out and it worked flawlessly in that one. I know I only paid $30.00 for the mag though because at that time mags were selling for $50.00 and up here. I just remember it being a good deal and that was around 2002 or 2003. The only way I am going to know for sure is to try it out and see if it works. I know it holds .308 rounds really good and it does fit in the Enfield good.

 

[rgg_7]

Post a pic of the mag and I'll tell you for sure. I've been surprised before where things show up! A $30.00 mag purchased 2002 was indeed a very good buy as the going rate then was closer to $80.00.....all's "water under the bridge at this point".

 

[Shoot to Live]

Here are the pics for the mag, to bad I didn't buy 20 of those mags now that they are selling at that price. Glad you can tell me what it is exactly as I don't remember.

 

[rgg_7]

That's a No4 303 mag...generally these don't feed 7.62 very well. If stamped on the spline "LB" then it's Long Branch...can't make out your stampings very well.