Enfield and Mauser questions

[Jiggi-watt]

I've been lurking around here for quite awhile and doing my research for future purchases, however I have a few things I'd like to ask.

I'll be making my first ever firearms purchase shortly, and I've decided to go with a Lee Enfield for myself, and my brother's birthday gift is going to be a Mauser. My questions are thus :

1) I'm pretty much set on a Longbranch Lee Enfield No4 MkI* with matching bolt and receiver. Magazine matching is not important. Would this be considered an optimal choice ? Is magazine matching important ?

2) What purpose does the "Ishapore screw" serve ? From what I've seen, I believe it's a screw just forward of the magazine in the stock...however aside from aesthetics, I'm not sure what's so negative about it or what it does.

3) My brother has stated that he'd prefer a Mauser K98k with markings intact (not Russian capture). I assume I'd be looking for an earlier manufacture for better quality. How much can I expect to pay ? Is this also a good choice, or would you recommend something different ?

4) What's a decent source for inexpensive (relatively) 7x57 and .303 ammo ?

I have a considerable appreciation and knowledge of history, however I would be looking to get good use out of these rifles...therefore I don't intend (necessarily) to buy collector quality. I wouldn't mind owning a Russian capture K98K, however my brother appears fairly insistent that the Waffenkamfts (sp ?) be intact and the rifle not force matched.

After these initial purchases, I have a very long shopping list...

Thanks folks

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

The Long Branch is an excellent choice. I have one and its my favorite (I forgot the * at the end of my name). The magazines were not numbered at the factory so the majority of LB mags are not numbered.

The Ishey screw was installed to give the forend a little more strength for use in India's harsh climate. (I think)

I am not sure, but finding a decent non-RC K98 might not be easy. If you do find one, expect to pay out off all possible orifices for it.

Both 8mm and .303 are available commercially, but cost more then other calibers. Your best to get into reloading if you want to do any heavy shooting.

If you are not intent on a collector piece, then a restored sporter may be for you. Some have the matching bolt and receiver, all that would not be original is the wood and wood hardware.

 

[mmattockx]

3) My brother has stated that he'd prefer a Mauser K98k with markings intact (not Russian capture). I assume I'd be looking for an earlier manufacture for better quality. How much can I expect to pay ? Is this also a good choice, or would you recommend something different ?

4) What's a decent source for inexpensive (relatively) 7x57 and .303 ammo ?

3) As mentioned, all matching, markings intact K98's are fairly rare and usually very pricey. Shooting one of these much is frowned on and it does lower collector value. The best deal going for a 98 is the RC ones and they make great shooters that you don't have to worry about scratching in the field.

A second option is a Yugo M-48, there are a fair number of the M-48BO (BO = without markings) from the Egyptian Suez Canal order around and they are still available in cosmoline with accessories for around $479 from a couple of the site sponsors. I think Frontier still lists some, do a bit of searching on the sites and you will find them. I have one of these and it shoots very well, as well as being a 60 year old brand new rifle. I plan on using it regularly and passing it to my kids when the time comes. Great rifle in my books.

4) There really is no such thing anymore. Both 8x57 and 303 are available commercially, for around $25-$30 per box of 20. Reloading is really the only choice if you plan on shooting more than a few boxes per year. Components are widely available and the 8mm really comes alive with proper loads (the factory ammo is downloaded in deference to older rifles).

CanadaAmmo may have a line on surplus 8mm in large quantities, but that has not been finalized yet. I sure hope so, but time will tell.

Mark

 

[Jiggi-watt]

3)

A second option is a Yugo M-48, there are a fair number of the M-48BO (BO = without markings) from the Egyptian Suez Canal order around and they are still available in cosmoline with accessories for around $479 from a couple of the site sponsors.

Mark

I've looked into the M-48's...what are the principle differences between the M-48 and the K98k ? Besides markings, of course.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

The M48 is not compatible with generic M98 parts or stocks. It is just a bit different in those dimensions.

There were two No.4s at Jason's gunshop on Friday. One for $350 and the other $400. A bit steep, but if the gun is worth buying, it is worth paying for.

In my opinion, your choice is better than his!

 

[Gary D]

I definitely understand wanting historic ties to my rifles. Such is the case with most of mine, (albeit coming from direct British lineage, I harbor no love nor desire for anything Nazi). IF history is a part of the equation and the desire for the K98 I don't see the hang up with a Russian Capture. I mean lets face it Germany lost the war, and the weapons were given to the Russians as a part of their reparations, that's just more history. I see the RC's much like LE's with Ishy screws, perhaps somewhat less desirable to the collector who wants to have a piece that frames WWII, but in the big picture (often) the rifle is still a WWII veteran, but it's history didn't end there. M48 not so much. Save the $$ get a RC K98 with all the history and you don't have to feel bad about pounding as much ammo out of it as possible.

Myself I'll take the Lee Enfield any day, I don't think there a more fun Bolt action rifle out there! I tell you there's nothing like lining up next to some guy with a new AR15 with it's neutered 5 rd. mag and then proceeding to pound through a mad minute kicking and roaring with .30cal ammo through an antiquated old battle rifle as they have long since putted all five 5.56m rounds down range and stand there gaping at you. You can't do that with a Mauser.

 

[mmattockx]

I've looked into the M-48's...what are the principle differences between the M-48 and the K98k ? Besides markings, of course.

As maple_leaf_eh says, the action dimensions are slightly different than the 98. I think it is slightly smaller and is called a "medium" or "intermediate" size Mauser action.

Also:

- The bolt handle is not bent as far down
- The stock does not have the cutout under the handle
- The M-48 has a wood cover around the rear sight
- The M-48 rear sight is graduated to 200m minimum and the K98 is 100m (I have been told)

Pic of a K98:

Pic of my M-48:

HTH,
Mark

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

The Ishapor screw was a British invention that they somehow omitted from the rebuild instructions , but which the Indians instituted. The idea is that a transverse screw through the foreend strengthens it and prevents splits. There isn't really anything wrong with the screws, just they look ugly and peg the rifle as having gone through Indian workshops some time between 1949 and now.

 

[Jiggi-watt]

Thanks for all the info guys.

My brother was mostly concerned with reduced quality of a Russian capture due to mismatched parts and defacing of the markings, the latter of which doesn't affect the function of the rifle.

As for the Lee Enfield, I've long held the opinion that it was the best bolt action battle rifle ever used. I know I've made a good choice

I'll be getting into reloading, but not immediately. I'm about to apply for the Forces and I'm in the process of getting my life put together and loose ends tied up, so I don't think I'll have the time to learn how in the immediate future.

Cheers

 

[redrommel]

My brother was mostly concerned with reduced quality of a Russian capture due to mismatched parts and defacing of the markings, the latter of which doesn't affect the function of the rifle.

I'd still go with the RC K98... The one's I've seen are great shooters and most have the markings intact. The only downside is usually the bolt has the serial number electropenciled into it and the stock it stamped with the number as well. Plenty of "birds" remain on the rifles though, along with date and factory stamps. I have 2 myself and they are both excellent rifles.

 

[Drachenblut]

I used to own a RC K98 with all the markings intact, the bolt was electropencil marked, but I got decent accuracy from 8mm factory ammo (Winchester I think? Older stuff) I personally own about 3 Lee Enfields, and love them. The .303 is my cartridge of choice, next to Ludmilla, my SVT 40 and her little 7.62 X54R children... ehehehehe....

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

My brother was mostly concerned with reduced quality of a Russian capture due to mismatched parts and defacing of the markings, the latter of which doesn't affect the function of the rifle.

I'm about to apply for the Forces and I'm in the process of getting my life put together and loose ends tied up, so I don't think I'll have the time to learn how in the immediate future.

Cheers

I imagine the RC capture rifles would be in better condition then some original rifles. They were rebuilt at an arsenal and just had the swastika's peened. Its not like Ol Bubba took a bunch of rifles and put a rifle together. There is no real difference to how Brittan and Canada would do their refurbs... I think.

What branch of the forces you doing? NCM or Officer?

 

[Gary D]

You can learn to reload in a weekend, it's not hard at all. The bigger issue is you can't legally reload in an apartment or attached housing (aka MQ's), so it may not be a good investment. Myself I'm about to be loading as much as I can to use up my supplies and plan to apply for a separate PMQ, but using the reason "so I can reload my own ammo" I don't think will carry much weight. Hope your application goes well, there's' a couple of us CGNers awaiting the call.

 

[ebruder]

I have both a K98 and a 1950 Longbranch No4Mk1*...

It's a toss up...

Both are very well built... both are excellent shooters...

I too got fed up paying $150 every time I pulled the trigger... so I have finally gotten into reloading... If you can't reload... can your brother or someone else learn and do it for you?

EB

 

[Jiggi-watt]

What branch of the forces you doing? NCM or Officer?

NCM, Infantry.

I have both a K98 and a 1950 Longbranch No4Mk1*...

It's a toss up...

Both are very well built... both are excellent shooters...

I too got fed up paying $150 every time I pulled the trigger... so I have finally gotten into reloading... If you can't reload... can your brother or someone else learn and do it for you?

EB

I live in a condo, so attached housing. My brother lives in an apartment...however there's a drug raid there every week so it's not the worst thing to be found in that building. I actually was not aware of that rule for reloading. My father just moved into a single house, however we've been having problems with the step mother allowing firearms in the house so he's going to store his in my safe...as for reloading supplies, that could be an easier battle.

You'd think someone who learned how to field strip, clean and fire an AK-47 in highschool would have more of an appreciation for firearms.

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

I do not think there is a law against reloading in an apartment or attached housing. Lots of people think this because some landlords do not want it. Talk to your landlord about it. If there are any rules against it, they would be from him/her.

 

[Gary D]

OOps, Yes LE is correct detached dwelling was something in the proposed laws that got shot down. I was mistaken and for some reason I thought that was in the existing laws as well. And the laws really are about storing explosive materials, and not the assembly of ammunition, so I suppose my post was misleading on that account as well. I'll step down and work on extracting my foot from my mouth now right after I get my head out of my a**.

 

[LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1]

OOps, Yes LE is correct detached dwelling was something in the proposed laws that got shot down. I was mistaken and for some reason I thought that was in the existing laws as well. And the laws really are about storing explosive materials, and not the assembly of ammunition, so I suppose my post was misleading on that account as well. I'll step down and work on extracting my foot from my mouth now right after I get my head out of my a**.

Ya. get your act together, come on man, really? Just kidding , but that is your one mulligan for the day LOL.