Enfield Identification .. this one is a doozy

slushee

slushee

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Okay, here we go :)

I have a Lee enfield with No 4 Mk 1 (F) marked on the receiver.

8/48 PF is marked below that just in front of what looks like a serial number.

It has match grade front and rear sights. The rear sight has marked MADE IN ENGLAND PARKER HALE and it also has marked PH-5C on it. The front sight is a tube with a set of replaceable match style front sight blades and circles.

The gun has full enfield wood which looks to have been sanded down, and had a very nice polyurathane type finish (clear coat) put onto it. The rifle has been rebarrled to .308 win or 7.62 nato, but i was unable to remove the wood to check for a caliber stamp. The barrel was stamped at 12 o clock at the breach end 'Regulated By PBLION' (the p and b were very muddled, so i'm only guessing they are a p and a b). There is also a symbol stamped beside the regulated stamp. The symbol looks like the outline of a house from monopoly (without the chimney) .. it looks like an outline of an up arrow (like a triangle on top of a box, but all one symbol). Below is a crude rendition of that symbol.

..../\
../....\
./.......\
.-.......-
..|.....|
..|.....|
...----


The barrel also is an exact duplicate of the original barrel in .303 cal because the gun still has all the original military wood. (i'm trying to say it has NOT been sportarized, it looks like a full wood military lee enfield). It has bayonet lugs and everything.

There is a giant X on the band, with a smaller S in the upper part of the X.

There was no magazine with this rifle, and the owner has said that you cannot load a round from a magazine because of it being in .308 win caliber. The mag well has not been modified whatsoever. The gun has 3 swivels (they look authentic).

The owner also has a box that states the following on it Redfield Gunsights W-490 Olympic.

I am at a loss as to the origine of this rifle. I am unable to tear the wood off the rifle to look for any additional stampings.

I would greatly appreciate any information anyone of you could provide!
 
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Target rifle. Sounds like a 7.62mm conversion. Regulated by Fulton? May have been regulated while still .303.
 
Kodiac400 said:
Its always helpful to have pic of the rifle that way we can see the the markings and hopefully be able to tell the rifles history.
Click to expand...

Cannot obtain pics. I am sorry, I realize how helpfull they are but it is impossible in this situation due to the owner. If pics become available in the future, I will update!

The barrel stamp did say very clearly Regulated By XXLION .. where the XX could possibly be PB. They were sort of overlapping and I only had a small amount of time to look over the rifle and take notes.

I have a suspicion that the (F) stands for target model, and the pb -5c rear sight only reinforces that conclusion. I do not however know who would have rebarreled the rifle to 7.62 but I suspect it was some large organization as any garage work would undoubtably left the rifle with a barrel that did not have original bayonet lugs, etc.

I think that if we can find out where this barrel came from, we would solve the riddle of where this rifle came from :)

Also, any significance regarding the X with the s in the upper part of it?

ps-can you put a price on the above rifle? The bore looks good with a lot of rifling left. there was only one very small chip off the wood beside where a screw mounts. Everything else looks like a VG rifle.
 
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He might be describing the Canadian Arsenals marking applied to 7.62 conversion parts. It's a stylized maple leaf, not an arrow, though.
 
Claven2 said:
He might be describing the Canadian Arsenals marking applied to 7.62 conversion parts. It's a stylized maple leaf, not an arrow, though.
Click to expand...

The PB could very well have been a stylized maple leaf from what I remember. It did not occure to me at the time that it could have been a symbol and not two letters.
 
I am guessing it was FTR'd as a .303 and later rebarreled as a target rifle after being sold off.,
By the way, there ARE .308 magazines for that, but they are BLOODY EXPENSIVE.
Now often .303 mags were fitted to serve as a loading platform for use as a single loader.
 
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slushee said:
I have a suspicion that the (F) stands for target model, and the pb -5c rear sight only reinforces that conclusion. I do not however know who would have rebarreled the rifle to 7.62 but I suspect it was some large organization as any garage work would undoubtably left the rifle with a barrel that did not have original bayonet lugs, etc.
Click to expand...

Actually it stands for FLABERGASTED....:)
 
F Fazakerly.
I have saw a number of No4 7.62 barrels new in the white with the bayonet lugs and have been told they were made at Longbrach.
They have been mounted on rifles.
 
Longbranch (CAL)made 7.62 for the brits ...i used to work at a surplus gunshop and he had quite a few brand new in the white CAL with bayonet lugs .
 
Okay, so my research finally discovered that this Lee Enfield was manufactured as an Fazakerly rifle in 1948, my father apparently found proof marks that seem to indicate it being rebarreled by Fulton Armoury (in england?). My father believes the rifle was rebarreled for use in the PALMA matches, but I have not confirmed what lead him to that conclusion. The rebarreling would have to have been done after 1985 as the PALMA Officials only made that the standard caliber in 1985.

Does anyone know if Fulton Armouries would have any kind of referance material of rebarreling jobs done in that era?

Also, would officials for the Palma matches have any records of rifles used to compete for their trophy?

I'd really like to find out if this rifle was actually used in a match, and if so, did it win any trophy's!

(as an aside, i think its a bit funny that they lost the original palma trophy. It was on display at some american military location? and then disappeared w/o a trace. either its collecting dust in a box in some deep dark warehouse somewhere or someone has it on display in his or her personal collection somewhere!)
 
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F Class did not exist in 1948. The F would be for Fazakerly, where the rifle was made. As noted, CAL did make 7.62 barrels for the Brits, with bayonet lugs. The CAL 7.62 DCRA conversions did not have bayonet lugs.
Have you found any proof marks on the barrel? If the rifle was rebarrelled in the UK, it will have appropriate British proof marks. Fulton may have worked on the rifle while it was still a .303, or after it was converted to 7.62, or perhaps they did the rebarrel.
Fultons still exists, you should be able to find their contact information.
I am unaware of service configured 7.62 No. 4 rifles being official Palma rifles.
Ask Ganderite or Corbin1 on this board. They will know.
 
I updated my conclusions so far tiriaq, thanks for the correction for (F). I wish I knew why my father is hell bent believing it was for PALMA, but the 1985 rules do state all the rifle has to be is a bolt action under 12 pounds, with a trigger pull just over 3 pounds. It could very well be that the (F) rifle in its original .303 caliber could have been used in the earlier matches as well (assuming my father is right).

My next question, what would a 1948 Fazakerly Lee Enfield converted to 7.62 (possibly by fulton) be worth in the class below VG (is it G-G+?)? I'm absolutly sure its not a CAL conversion unfortunatly.
 
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