Entry level plinker for my guests, looking at a Savage Mark II, should I be though?

[HelloKy]

I'm in the middle of waiting for my PAL to arrive in the mail so all I can do is arm-chair research and window shop at the moment in the meantime, hence what I feel to be a somewhat bizzare question.

Since several of my friends and family have learned that someone they know (me) can take them shooting, i've got a small queue of people who've never shot anything in their life lining up to go to the range with me in the future.

It's a cool problem to have, but my style rests in bigger calibers and shotguns, y'know things that might accidentally turn off some people whether it be recoil or loudness. So the obvious solution here is to get a .22 (gentle enough first shots, basic handling safety, that kind of thing), the question on my mind is: which one? Again it's not explicitly for me (though, let's be honest, of course I'll use it too) so I'm not looking to break the bank over it (and I know .22's can get quite pricy) and the Savage Mark II seems to fit that smaller price tag while seemingly offering a good platform. This one in particular: https://www.cabelas.ca/product/4990/savage-mark-ii-fv-heavy-barrel-bolt-action-rifle-w-accutrigger

My question I pose here is: why shouldn't it be apart of my collection, and/or is there a better option of equivilent or lesser price?

(preface: not trying to be provocative here)

 

[grauhanen]

That model of Savage should be as good as any new rifle for an entry level plinker for your guests.

Of course, there are even less expensive rifles of similar quality available on the previously owned market. You may wish to save your money for those "bigger calibers and shotguns" that you say are more your "style". Check out the EE or Equipment Exchange here on CGN.

 

[thegazelle]

I'm in the middle of waiting for my PAL to arrive in the mail so all I can do is arm-chair research and window shop at the moment in the meantime, hence what I feel to be a somewhat bizzare question.

Since several of my friends and family have learned that someone they know (me) can take them shooting, i've got a small queue of people who've never shot anything in their life lining up to go to the range with me in the future.

It's a cool problem to have, but my style rests in bigger calibers and shotguns, y'know things that might accidentally turn off some people whether it be recoil or loudness. So the obvious solution here is to get a .22 (gentle enough first shots, basic handling safety, that kind of thing), the question on my mind is: which one? Again it's not explicitly for me (though, let's be honest, of course I'll use it too) so I'm not looking to break the bank over it (and I know .22's can get quite pricy) and the Savage Mark II seems to fit that smaller price tag while seemingly offering a good platform. This one in particular: https://www.cabelas.ca/product/4990/savage-mark-ii-fv-heavy-barrel-bolt-action-rifle-w-accutrigger

My question I pose here is: why shouldn't it be apart of my collection, and/or is there a better option of equivilent or lesser price?

(preface: not trying to be provocative here)

I would reverse the question and say definitely why it should be in your collection.

The Mark II is a good entry level choice - buying a new one is a good idea - some of the older ones may have some issues with mag loose seating which affects feeding, but out of the box otherwise, accuracy has been good. Two of my kids learned to shoot on my Savage Mark II as their first "real" firearm after air rifles. I like the bolt action for a beginner shooter so it teaches them the discipline of making every shot count. My oldest son has since gravitated to the .22 semi autos, and loves the GSG-16, but for the longest time, I deliberately picked the Mark II as the gun to take to the range (until I got the 457, then that was his choice). The Mark II won't break the bank and is generally a good gun. If you want something that is really a pleasure to shoot, the CZ457 is an option, but it will be at least double the price as a Mark II - but it sounded like you wanted to keep it to a budget range so this is a great choice.

My kids learned using the built in sights on the Mark II, which aren't too bad, in my view, since they were able to achieve decent accuracy out of the box.

For the Mark II or any bolt action, for a new shooter you can always use the low velocity rounds like the Remington CBees or CCI Quiets. My kids had some sort of pre-conceived notion of noise before they first shot, so I used those and after a few rounds they wanted more excitement and we moved to Stingers...haha...

 

[Buck1950]

Just another opinion here - I have a B22-FV and find it's really accurate and easy to use and has the rotary mag so nothing sticking out the bottom. I've read that the MKs are very accurate, too, so it depends on what you can find. Try to find the 'V' barrel for what I feel gives a touch more accuracy, especially if shooting many shots. My A22 has the 'Standard' barrel and I need to let it cool frequently, tho semi makes the bullets fly easier ^O^ . The "R" isn't consequential unless you plan to add a tuner.
PS - I think the B22 is a touch more expensive than the MKII.

 

[LarryG]

Of course a savage fv is a pretty decent gun. As in, very accurate generally, will last forever. It's also a bit on the heavy side for hunting. And, you will have to invest in scope mounts and a good quality scope and maybe some extra mags. Which will put you in the 500$ range.

Personally, if i we're in the market for a .22, i would look at one of two of the used sporters coming out of europe right now, carried by intersurplus, frontier, great northern etc., at prices below what you would see on the EE. There are so many high quality choices like krico, anschutz, husqvarna, etc. In the same price range. These are mostly walnut/steel guns and will have more character than that savage, imho.

Spend a little more $ on the EE, and you can find a nice cz or brno in the same price range, which will get you a better mag design and a better stock, and maybe some open sights.

You could also pick up an old mossberg semi or bolt on the EE with really nice character. Those were excellent and very accurate guns.

And, in the bang for buck categorey, a norinco jw20 semi, jw15 cz bolt knockoff, or the current em332a bolt guns are all pretty decent for less money. They all come up regularly in the 200- 225$ range.

Good luck!

 

[HelloKy]

You may wish to save your money for those "bigger calibers and shotguns" that you say are more your "style".

hahaha I really and truly didn't mean it like that

First thing I ever shot was a 12g when I was a small child (around five or six, details are fuzzy) and a bit later my next with a 30-06 of some variety. Then (much) later when I was handed my first .22 to shoot it just made me realize I was more into the bigger bangs but it was there for my family to teach me about proper handling solo and shooting at cans in the bush. That's all I really meant by that. And while I say all that, guaranteed whatever .22 I do get at the end of the day it's highly likely going to wind up being something I use all the time for fun anyways lol

I would reverse the question and say definitely why it should be in your collection.

The Mark II is a good entry level choice - buying a new one is a good idea - some of the older ones may have some issues with mag loose seating which affects feeding, but out of the box otherwise, accuracy has been good. Two of my kids learned to shoot on my Savage Mark II as their first "real" firearm after air rifles. I like the bolt action for a beginner shooter so it teaches them the discipline of making every shot count. My oldest son has since gravitated to the .22 semi autos, and loves the GSG-16, but for the longest time, I deliberately picked the Mark II as the gun to take to the range (until I got the 457, then that was his choice). The Mark II won't break the bank and is generally a good gun. If you want something that is really a pleasure to shoot, the CZ457 is an option, but it will be at least double the price as a Mark II - but it sounded like you wanted to keep it to a budget range so this is a great choice.

My kids learned using the built in sights on the Mark II, which aren't too bad, in my view, since they were able to achieve decent accuracy out of the box.

For the Mark II or any bolt action, for a new shooter you can always use the low velocity rounds like the Remington CBees or CCI Quiets. My kids had some sort of pre-conceived notion of noise before they first shot, so I used those and after a few rounds they wanted more excitement and we moved to Stingers...haha...

This is fantastic feedback, thank you!

I had considered also picking up an Air Rifle in the meantime, and for similar purpose of getting my kids started. Just feels around my area that the only place you really can shoot them is at the range anyways and only during operating hours and whatever time restriction threshold set up for air rifle shooting is allowed :\

Great idea on the low velocity too, going to remember that when I take my oldest out for the first time (she's 8). The last thing I want to do is scare her, but I think she's got a pretty thick skin about her regarding noise and she's a tough little one too. It's my youngest who might need the most safety net when I bring her for the first time, the cutest tiniest little thing she is, and even minor noises scare her. So perhaps an Air Rifle on a quiet day would be most appropriate for her and slowly work her way up the 22.

Love all bolt actions too!

Just another opinion here - I have a B22-FV and find it's really accurate and easy to use and has the rotary mag so nothing sticking out the bottom. I've read that the MKs are very accurate, too, so it depends on what you can find. Try to find the 'V' barrel for what I feel gives a touch more accuracy, especially if shooting many shots. My A22 has the 'Standard' barrel and I need to let it cool frequently, tho semi makes the bullets fly easier ^O^ . The "R" isn't consequential unless you plan to add a tuner.
PS - I think the B22 is a touch more expensive than the MKII.

I'm defintiely going to look into the B22-FV based on this response, thank you so much

Of course a savage fv is a pretty decent gun. As in, very accurate generally, will last forever. It's also a bit on the heavy side for hunting. And, you will have to invest in scope mounts and a good quality scope and maybe some extra mags. Which will put you in the 500$ range.

Personally, if i we're in the market for a .22, i would look at one of two of the used sporters coming out of europe right now, carried by intersurplus, frontier, great northern etc., at prices below what you would see on the EE. There are so many high quality choices like krico, anschutz, husqvarna, etc. In the same price range. These are mostly walnut/steel guns and will have more character than that savage, imho.

Spend a little more $ on the EE, and you can find a nice cz or brno in the same price range, which will get you a better mag design and a better stock, and maybe some open sights.

You could also pick up an old mossberg semi or bolt on the EE with really nice character. Those were excellent and very accurate guns.

And, in the bang for buck categorey, a norinco jw20 semi, jw15 cz bolt knockoff, or the current em332a bolt guns are all pretty decent for less money. They all come up regularly in the 200- 225$ range.

Good luck!

Hey thanks for the recommendations! I'll need to look into these

Regarding the accessories, yeah that's fine. If the rifle is being used and enjoyed, I don't mind sinking a bit more investment into it for some upgrades, especially if it's going to enhance the experience for my guests, making them salivate to come out again sooner than later hehe

Interesting notes about character too. I've been so wrapped up in reliability and durability I forgot to even consider what the platform's, uh, "personality" is like, both outside and to use.

I think at the end of the day I just need to hunt one down and hold it, even if I can't buy it yet, and just get a good feel.

But also... who's to say a MKII needs to be the _only_ .22 in the vault

 

[tacfoley]

I personally would look elsewhere than Krico, as the company, as a maker of high-quality rifles in many calibres, no longer makes guns of any kind, having been subsumed into the Beretta group a few years back. They were, in any case, somewhat of a niche buy and were not only expensive when new, but very hard to find in any specific calibre. I don't have a .22cal Krico, but I DO have the .308Win cal Model 650S - the precision target/counter-sniper/para-military long rifle, and although I love it to bits, I had to rely on a good pal here in Canada [mornin', Diopter] to find me some spare mags. The five-round mags from the one and only GS here in UK to have any wanted 175 Euros EACH.

 

[tacfoley]

You have youngsters just starting out on their life of shooting, and you talk about noise and how sensitive your littlest is to noise - 'even the smallest noise scares her' you wrote.

However, you have not made ONE single mention of effective hearing protection from the off. Or safety glasses. For anybody.

 

[thegazelle]

Great idea on the low velocity too, going to remember that when I take my oldest out for the first time (she's 8). The last thing I want to do is scare her, but I think she's got a pretty thick skin about her regarding noise and she's a tough little one too. It's my youngest who might need the most safety net when I bring her for the first time, the cutest tiniest little thing she is, and even minor noises scare her. So perhaps an Air Rifle on a quiet day would be most appropriate for her and slowly work her way up the 22.

Glad the feedback helped. The only other thing I want to add based on your additional comments, and this is based on one person's experience with their own kids and of course everyone else's kids are different...

Whether stereotypical or not, I assumed that my daughter, who is younger than my son, and much shorter, would be the one only wanting to shoot .22s. My son, over six feet tall, and a bigger guy is the one who is very noise sensitive - it's not really the noise per se - he has Howard Leight electronic muffs like me - it is more than concussive blast or whatever that he perceives as the noise since have a few Lantac Dragon muzzle brakes on rifles, and when we go shooting he always stands to the left of me and slightly back. I have offered for him to try the 5.56, and he has tried it and told me for some of the shots, he even closes his eyes, which I didn't even know till after. He is noise averse for some reason.

My younger daughter, on the other hand, tried the .22, then wanted to move to the 9mm PCC, then the .40 PCC and then move to the 12ga shotgun before going to the 5.56. All within a very short time span - maybe 20-30 min. I even have her on video saying "recoil is not bad at all" and "it's loud but you get used to it" when she was shooting my WK. This is the first time she went shooting with me. So I completely overestimated the older boy and underestimated the younger girl.

You may be pleasantly surprised at your kids' reactions once they start shooting. Get them some good muffs (I personally love my Howard Leight electronics - think it is called Impact Sport or something - so it picks up on conversation clearly but blocks out high decibel immediate noises like the report of the gun), go through safety very thoroughly - I think for some new shooters, they may have certain perceptions of guns. A .22LR bolt action is a perfect gun to start off, as I believe it will quickly put the shooter ease and start erasing perceptions, particularly if the person showing them how to shoot is calm, collected, and is thorough on explaining safety practices, etc.

What I also did is make the first time target shooting fun for the kids - depending on where you go - if it's at a range, you can use those Splatter targets, and some ranges will let you tape up coloured balloons, etc. If you are in the sticks, then more options for metal gongs, plastic bottles filled with coloured water, full carbonated pop cans (always satisfying to shoot a can of cream soda and watch the thing explode). The balloons in particular are a great hit because it gives a big enough coloured target to shoot and even on built in sights with the Mark II, the balloons can be hit easily and immediately there is a sense of accomplishment for the new shooter / child, etc. Plus popping balloons is satisfying at all ages...

 

[Jmcc]

Thegazelle mentioned the GSG-16.

all 3 of my kids love this gun.
One great thing about it is the adjustable stock. in 3 seconds you can re size it for just about anyone.

It has iron sites that are pretty good, but I put a cheap $45 amazon red dot on it and its lots of fun.

If you get it, it comes with 2 mags. I reco buying 2 more.
That way someone is always loading while someone else is shooting.

 

[johNTO]

Consider buying a bolt-action .22lr with irons. Everyone should learn how to shoot with irons imo.
If you really need to scope it get a low power 2-7x with AO or even just a fixed 4x. It will keep the package kinda light and usually "cheaper".
Personally, I think every cabinet should have at least one .22lr rifle. Better yet make it a lever action.....

 

[thegazelle]

Thegazelle mentioned the GSG-16.

all 3 of my kids love this gun.
One great thing about it is the adjustable stock. in 3 seconds you can re size it for just about anyone.

It has iron sites that are pretty good, but I put a cheap $45 amazon red dot on it and its lots of fun.

If you get it, it comes with 2 mags. I reco buying 2 more.
That way someone is always loading while someone else is shooting.

All great points. Agree with the extra mags. Many retailers sell the extra mags in a 2-mag set.

The GSG16 is also a good choice because it is light, feels very plasticky (which for some is a bad thing but for new shooters, some of them think it's an airsoft gun)

I didn't mention this until now, but one of the nice byproducts of the GSG-16 is that it absolutely dispels the notion that "black guns are scary" and that at the very least, for those who have been exposed to this sentiment, it at the very least challenges their perception. One very interesting psychological experiment I did with my kids is bring my basic wooden stock 10/22 as well as my GSG to the range once - this was before they shot the GSG. I asked both of them which one they wanted to shoot. Both said the 10/22. I asked why - they said they thought the GSG would be loud, lots of recoil and they have seen my PCCs and my 5.56 and they said they will try the 10/22 (which had a cheapo Bushnell 3-9x40 scope on it whereas the GSG had the Sig Romeo 5 RDS). They shot the 10/22 and quite liked it. Said it's the lazy man's version of the Mark II (presumably because of the semi auto nature of the Ruger). I asked them after to shoot the GSG. They were a bit apprehensive but I told them it was using the same ammo. They said really? And tried it.

Their responses were priceless - hey, this isn't that bad...wasn't as loud as they thought...recoil "wasn't bad", etc. I had to keep myself from bursting out in laughter.

I told them the gun is pretty much identical to the other one operational wise - same action, same caliber, just some aesthetic differences.

Guess what? Now the GSG is the kids' go to gun of choice. The poor 10/22 has been relegated back to the far reaching abyss in the back of the gun safe once more.

More importantly it showed them just like you can't judge people by how they look, neither can you judge a gun by its appearance.

 

[Jmcc]

What id do:

-Get a good iron sight pellet rifle now (doesn't need a PAL)
these are fantastic to learn on. don't need hearing protection. wont bug your neighbours, dont need a big range set up, even very little kids (under supervision) can shoot. VERY cheap to run.

- Get a fun semi auto 22
I like the GSG but there are lots of other ones out there too
the more fun they are having the less scary they are (as thegazelle mentions)

 

[thegazelle]

What id do:

-Get a good iron sight pellet rifle now (doesn't need a PAL)
these are fantastic to learn on. don't need hearing protection. wont bug your neighbours, dont need a big range set up, even very little kids (under supervision) can shoot. VERY cheap to run.

- Get a fun semi auto 22
I like the GSG but there are lots of other ones out there too
the more fun they are having the less scary they are (as thegazelle mentions)

Air rifles are a great idea. Some rifles, even non-PAL ones, may be too heavy for a younger shooter, or some break barrels would be harder for younger kids to operate.

CO2 air rifles are a possible idea for this, or CO2 air pistols, though the downside is the colder weather now affecting velocity and performance.

 

[Jmcc]

Air rifles are a great idea. Some rifles, even non-PAL ones, may be too heavy for a younger shooter, or some break barrels would be harder for younger kids to operate.

CO2 air rifles are a possible idea for this, or CO2 air pistols, though the downside is the colder weather now affecting velocity and performance.

I like the break action air rifles for kids specifically because they can't use it without me
Every shot has to have an adults involvement.

For very young ones I use a stand (just scraps of 2x3 and plywood to make a little jig)

 

[IvoB]

It will be an excellent choice I have one and put over 5,000 rounds through it without a breakdown I clean it after I've shot a brick of ammo

 

[Peter_koutz]

I have it in .17hm2. love it and looking at buying one in .22 now

 

[ReverendX]

I wouldn't buy a gun just so other people can use it.

I'd put that money towards buying a better optic or better gun for myself.

As a tradesman I don't buy tools for other people to use, they can buy their own tools.

 

[HelloKy]

I personally would look elsewhere than Krico, as the company, as a maker of high-quality rifles in many calibres, no longer makes guns of any kind, having been subsumed into the Beretta group a few years back. They were, in any case, somewhat of a niche buy and were not only expensive when new, but very hard to find in any specific calibre. I don't have a .22cal Krico, but I DO have the .308Win cal Model 650S - the precision target/counter-sniper/para-military long rifle, and although I love it to bits, I had to rely on a good pal here in Canada [mornin', Diopter] to find me some spare mags. The five-round mags from the one and only GS here in UK to have any wanted 175 Euros EACH.

Good to know! Thank you

You have youngsters just starting out on their life of shooting, and you talk about noise and how sensitive your littlest is to noise - 'even the smallest noise scares her' you wrote.

However, you have not made ONE single mention of effective hearing protection from the off. Or safety glasses. For anybody.

Sorry I didn't really think I needed to mention that, but I'll try to be more careful with my wording going forward. But even with all the right ear and eye pro used and safety precautions taken, and not even being the one who pulls the trigger, can still be overwhelming to some. Some people are just more sensitive to sudden noises than others. My wife cannot be around balloons, at all, because of the pop, as mild as the noise might be. My oldest daughter relishes in it. I've personally never been around my wife or kids with firearms of any kind so I don't really know what their sensitivity levels are yet. But I can assure you I will be doing everything needed and above and beyond what's necessary to make sure everyone is safe and protected, and do my best to make it as fun and enjoyable as I can (within range rules, of course).

Glad the feedback helped. The only other thing I want to add based on your additional comments, and this is based on one person's experience with their own kids and of course everyone else's kids are different...

Whether stereotypical or not, I assumed that my daughter, who is younger than my son, and much shorter, would be the one only wanting to shoot .22s. My son, over six feet tall, and a bigger guy is the one who is very noise sensitive - it's not really the noise per se - he has Howard Leight electronic muffs like me - it is more than concussive blast or whatever that he perceives as the noise since have a few Lantac Dragon muzzle brakes on rifles, and when we go shooting he always stands to the left of me and slightly back. I have offered for him to try the 5.56, and he has tried it and told me for some of the shots, he even closes his eyes, which I didn't even know till after. He is noise averse for some reason.

My younger daughter, on the other hand, tried the .22, then wanted to move to the 9mm PCC, then the .40 PCC and then move to the 12ga shotgun before going to the 5.56. All within a very short time span - maybe 20-30 min. I even have her on video saying "recoil is not bad at all" and "it's loud but you get used to it" when she was shooting my WK. This is the first time she went shooting with me. So I completely overestimated the older boy and underestimated the younger girl.

You may be pleasantly surprised at your kids' reactions once they start shooting. Get them some good muffs (I personally love my Howard Leight electronics - think it is called Impact Sport or something - so it picks up on conversation clearly but blocks out high decibel immediate noises like the report of the gun), go through safety very thoroughly - I think for some new shooters, they may have certain perceptions of guns. A .22LR bolt action is a perfect gun to start off, as I believe it will quickly put the shooter ease and start erasing perceptions, particularly if the person showing them how to shoot is calm, collected, and is thorough on explaining safety practices, etc.

What I also did is make the first time target shooting fun for the kids - depending on where you go - if it's at a range, you can use those Splatter targets, and some ranges will let you tape up coloured balloons, etc. If you are in the sticks, then more options for metal gongs, plastic bottles filled with coloured water, full carbonated pop cans (always satisfying to shoot a can of cream soda and watch the thing explode). The balloons in particular are a great hit because it gives a big enough coloured target to shoot and even on built in sights with the Mark II, the balloons can be hit easily and immediately there is a sense of accomplishment for the new shooter / child, etc. Plus popping balloons is satisfying at all ages...

Thanks for sharing this man, I super appreciate it

Like I mentioned to tacfoley I have no idea yet what anyone's sensitivities are yet so we need to yet figure that out. My oldest daughter is kind of the person who spurred on this whole thing. I took her to a little light gun shooting gallery at Playland in Burnaby BC and she instantly fell in love with it, and was surprisingly accurate for someone who'd never held anything remotely close to a firearm before that (not even a super soaker or nerf gun lol). Now, I know that's a light gun, so I asked her if she'd be interested in trying out the real deal and she enthusiastically said yes. When I took her to Cabelas a while later she took one look at a Red Ryder and asked about it. So I know she's into this. She's a tough girl, I have quite a bit of confidence she'll take to the .22 pretty well, and will probably ask to shoot something bigger sooner than later; but we'll have to see. She might just outright not like it after all is said and done. And that's ok, I've wanted to get back into shooting for many years
My wife and the mother of both my daughters grew up in a hunting household, but as far as firearms experience the details aren't all there. She can't even be in the same room as a half deflated balloon, but maybe if she's the one in control of when the pop happens she'll be ok. It's just something we'll all need to explore together.
I've a feeling my youngest might just need to start with an air rifle just based on her frame alone by the time I do take her out for the first time. She's like 30lbs soaking wet and pretty noise averse to boot. I also have no idea if she'll even want too or care too, she's still really young to even notice or care lol

Thegazelle mentioned the GSG-16.

all 3 of my kids love this gun.
One great thing about it is the adjustable stock. in 3 seconds you can re size it for just about anyone.

It has iron sites that are pretty good, but I put a cheap $45 amazon red dot on it and its lots of fun.

If you get it, it comes with 2 mags. I reco buying 2 more.
That way someone is always loading while someone else is shooting.

The CSG-16 looks like a lot of fun, at least to me anyways! hahaha

 

[deadman]

I have that exact .22, well maybe a few of them. Definitely a good choice. As mentioned by someone else though, it's heavy for what it is (and kinda out of balance with the rubber stock). Good for shooting off a bag or something but maybe not a great choice for a younger shooter looking for squirrels. But a pretty solid choice for a new shooter learning how it's done at the range.

If you have the means to buy something for others to try out, go for it.

There are nicer rifles out there for sure. I've been giving my sons and daughters/nieces and nephews MKII as soon as they were big enough to shoot, I don't know if there is a better starter platform out there. Easy to operate, many different configurations.

Maybe consider the MKII FXP. Same rifle but with a sporter barrel, and comes with a 3-9 scope mounted on it. Less nose heavy for smaller shooters, and ready to go out of the box. I bought 4 of them last year to give my 4 nephews, they love them and their dads keep telling me they can't find enough ammo to keep the boys shooting. I have both the sporter and heavy barrel, can't really tell a difference. Tenda has them in stock for 369 plus tax, cabelas also shows them for 400.