Everything shooting equaly bad?

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speers

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I just finished ''putting together'' a stevens 200 with a shilen select match barrel bedded into a HS stock. The damn thing dose not want to shoot better then 3/4 moa at 100 yards. Ive tried every load min to max with varget and A-max 155s and SMK 155s with new winchester brass once fired wincheser brass neck sizing full length sizing and everything else in between. Anyone have any ideas other then changing powder and bullets. I'de like to stick with varget for now cause I have 8 pounds of it and SMK or A-max cause there both easy to get for me. O the coal is 2.800 and its a 1-12 twist barrel. Somebody please tell me there is something simple im missing:redface:
 
Well, it's not your brass, bullets, or powder, and it's not likely the action or the barrel, although it might be the fit between the two. Ask Jerry (Mysticplayer) about that, Savage/Stevens are sorta his specialty.
Other than that I'd be rechecking the usual suspects: scope, or bedding.
 
I just put one together for a guy with a shilen and it shot 3 5 shot sub 1" groups at 300yards with 168 nosler competitions with the first load of varget we tried. I am not sure what to tell you but maybe try adjusting the stock bolt tension.
 
speers said:
I just finished ''putting together'' a stevens 200 with a shilen select match barrel bedded into a HS stock. The damn thing dose not want to shoot better then 3/4 moa at 100 yards. Ive tried every load min to max with varget and A-max 155s and SMK 155s with new winchester brass once fired wincheser brass neck sizing full length sizing and everything else in between. Anyone have any ideas other then changing powder and bullets. I'de like to stick with varget for now cause I have 8 pounds of it and SMK or A-max cause there both easy to get for me. O the coal is 2.800 and its a 1-12 twist barrel. Somebody please tell me there is something simple im missing:redface:
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Not every custom barrel will be a 1 hole barrel. As with anything you can get good ones and bad ones.

Are you yourself capable of shooting less than 3/4 MOA consistently? Even a mediocre shooter will get a 1/4min or less group at some point in time but this does not mean they can do it every time.

Nothing wrong with Varget in the .308, 95% or more of the .308 shooters use it in competition.
 
speers said:
I just finished ''putting together'' a stevens 200 with a shilen select match barrel bedded into a HS stock. The damn thing dose not want to shoot better then 3/4 moa at 100 yards. Ive tried every load min to max with varget and A-max 155s and SMK 155s with new winchester brass once fired wincheser brass neck sizing full length sizing and everything else in between. Anyone have any ideas other then changing powder and bullets. I'de like to stick with varget for now cause I have 8 pounds of it and SMK or A-max cause there both easy to get for me. O the coal is 2.800 and its a 1-12 twist barrel. Somebody please tell me there is something simple im missing:redface:
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I know exactly how you feel!! I bought a brand new set of TOP-O-LINE Ping Golf Clubs. Those dang clubs just can't shoot straight. I should return them for a refund because every one of them can't shoot sub par.

:D:D:D:D
 
CyaN1de said:
Not every custom barrel will be a 1 hole barrel. As with anything you can get good ones and bad ones.

Are you yourself capable of shooting less than 3/4 MOA consistently? Even a mediocre shooter will get a 1/4min or less group at some point in time but this does not mean they can do it every time.

Nothing wrong with Varget in the .308, 95% or more of the .308 shooters use it in competition.
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I know my shooting skills are far from fine tuned yet, but the thing that gets me is i havent even got a lucky group that i can follow up on. they all look exactly the same. Its like 4 wholes punched side by side on a horizantal line every time no flyers no laterial. I cant get a group thats better or worse to point me in the right direction, never thought I would complain about it but it wont shoot worst then 3/4 either. :confused: Anyone wanna try it see if it is me:redface:
 
speers said:
I know my shooting skills are far from fine tuned yet, but the thing that gets me is i havent even got a lucky group that i can follow up on. they all look exactly the same. Its like 4 wholes punched side by side on a horizantal line every time no flyers no laterial. I cant get a group thats better or worse to point me in the right direction, never thought I would complain about it but it wont shoot worst then 3/4 either. :confused: Anyone wanna try it see if it is me:redface:
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Post pics of the targets maybe?

Are these groups shot in 0 wind and 0 mirage?

Wind could account for some of the horizontal dispersion, if the vertical dispersion is good then I would work on technique.

There are still skills that need to be developed to shoot those 1/2 and 1/4 min groups that everyone claims they can do "all day long".

Even those of us who shoot competitively can not shoot 1/4 min groups all day long. There are days when you cant miss and others when you cant seem to get the bullet to go where you want it no matter what you do.
 
speers said:
I just finished ''putting together'' a stevens 200 with a shilen select match barrel bedded into a HS stock. The damn thing dose not want to shoot better then 3/4 moa at 100 yards. Ive tried every load min to max with varget and A-max 155s and SMK 155s with new winchester brass once fired wincheser brass neck sizing full length sizing and everything else in between. Anyone have any ideas other then changing powder and bullets. I'de like to stick with varget for now cause I have 8 pounds of it and SMK or A-max cause there both easy to get for me. O the coal is 2.800 and its a 1-12 twist barrel. Somebody please tell me there is something simple im missing:redface:
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Try H4895.......Varget is over-rated.
 
Holy chit speers, You just gone and done opened Ms. Pandora's unregistered box!.
Welcome to the real world of unfullfilled initial expectations. Been there a time or two.
Most often it's some little thing that has fouled it up. Problem is, WHAT little thing.?. You are working with a proven combo. Enter tuning.

Expecting somewhat better indicates that you personally are capable of better, so it's gotta be the gun not you, right?. Letting a buddy shoot a group will settle that.

- wonky scope: change it out if uncertain of a reliable history. check mounts/rings too. Dry fire in your setup, I've seen horizontal from loose ocular threads. Yank side to side on the rear of the scope.

- bedding: check for generous barrel clearance. Loosen/snug both action screws with a fingertip between the action and stock. Any perceptable flexing is not good.

- Clean hell outt'a that barrel when it's brand new, carbon rings and copper fouling will cause grief.

- Runout: not unusual to show up with new dies/new cal.. Roll 'em and check, 3thou. or under at the ogive, although stringing is not what I've seen from runout. More like flyers.

My bet's on bedding.
 
What sort of chamber was the barrel supplied with? What sort of leade?

Get the bullets as close to the lands as you can get, try again. Varget is a good proven 308 powder; you will run into compressed loads with light bullets using 4895.

There are so many variables that can be influencing this. To be honest, as much as I know about setting up a precision rifle, this is what I let a professional gunsmith install chamber and headspace my rifles. I don't want to be having to search for occult mal-adjustments. Make sure everything is tight, try getting close to the lands and if that doesn't work, try another bullet. If you can get them, the Lapua 155's or the Berger 155.5 bullets are superb.
 
What kind of groups are you getting how many have you shot, horizontal or vertical. If it is horizontal then it is the shooter if the group is vertical then something in the load/gun is the issue.

Suggestions have one of your buddies shoot the rifle and see if he gets similar results assuming he is equal in shooting ability as you. The other would be to buy some factory MATCH ammo Federal, Hornady, Lapua, Norma. Use the factory ammo as your baseline. If the factory ammo shoots better then your reloads then you know it is your load, If it doesn't then you can rule it out and start looking at the gun. The guy who suggested the scope might be an issue is not far off if you have a known scope that works swap them out.

Are all the screws tight? scope, base, action.

Trevor
 
I know i can shoot well enough to get a decent group once and a while. When i had my scope thats on my 308 on my 7wsm one whole groups were easy to get and it was easy to tell when I muffed a shot up. The barrel was properly head spaced, the trigger is original but is tuned down as low as it can go(witch is still no good but im trying to make it work till i can get a sav2 from rifle basix) bedding might be an issue. Rings bases everything is tight. I dont have the equipment to check for runout and the like yet. Were would be the best place to start place with coal? Usually i find my best load and play with it but there is no best load to play with on this one. I cant even get a lucky group with this gun, even when im having a bad day i can get 3 out of 5 shots together in some sort of a group this gun is the same no matter what i do it wont shoot good it wont shoot bad. I figured if i can make it shoot 5 shots into 3/4 moa with the worst load i could make it shoot better with a good load.
 
make sure the bedding IS done correctly. Alot of times, that is there I find the biggest problems. the action should feel like a solid piece with the stock WITHOUT the action bolts. A little bit of movement in tilt is fine so you can take the action out of the stock but there should be no movement in any other direction.

Ensure that the action is flat and not stressed/bent

The action bolts need to be snug but not he man tight IF the bedding is done correctly.

Is the scope base tight? a loose bolt can't be seen and will drive you insane.

Loose rings? bad scope? Mag high enough to see the target with resolution of 1/8" - you can't shoot groups smaller then the error in your sight picture

ensure the scope is not broken.

wind flags?

Solid bench, rests front and rear. Good shooting form - a 308 can buck and squirm quite a bit and if you are not consistent in your hold and follow through, bullets will not go into one hole.

Loading tech, visit my website under Tech and look in the rifle tech section. I have a few articles on load tuning and rifle set up.

If you are using conventional dies, you may be creating oversized, way too much neck tension and/or ammo with large amounts of runout. Ill fitting cartridges don't shoot all that well.

Did you weigh your charges precisely and to what levels? Going in 1/2 gr increments is usually too coarse but a good way to see where additional testing should occur.

How hot are you getting the barrel? How cold is the ambient temp? How cold are you?

You have the ingredients for a fantastic shooting rifle. Just need to figure out why things are working.

Start with the basics and remove any variable. When we are only dealing with the load tuning, that can be resolved by studying the groups.

Let me know if you need more help.

Thanks,

Jerry
 
I noted that you have set the OAL at 2.80" Why?

Did you measure this vs the throat or did you decide based on the load manual?

the Stevens mag should hold a case close to 3" so you have tons of room to fit the bullet to the chamber.

a big bullet jump may not yield positive results.

Jerry
 
I'm starting to think bedding maybe my biggest issue. And the trigger might be a close second, i have noticed my self fighting with it once and a while to break the shot but they seem to stay in there group, I know i need a lighter one.

I just picked a coal of 2.800 just as a starting point and they fed well through my clip, I really would like to be able to use it as a repeater.

My dies are just RCBS small base standard dies and i picked up an RCBS neck sizing die too, should i be looking into something else?

My scopes a sightron SIII 6-24 I have no problem seeing what im shooting at and the scope worked perfect on my 7wsm so im ruleing it out for right now.

The barrel dosent get hot at all when i'm doing my load testing I generally make 5 rounds shoot them, go back inside make 5 more and shoot them (i shoot in my back yard) when load testing i went up in .25 increments.

So guys tell me if im on the right track. After the deer season I'm going to have my smith bed it for me and ill track down a sav2 trigger. (anyone know were to find one) Load up everything again see what I can come up with and then play with my seating depth? Or should I seat my bullets out a little further this time when I make my next batch of loads?

Also would primers have anything to do with it? I have just been useing up a box of old Reminton primers? Should I try something else?
 
You should be able to get the bullets out farther without any feeding issues. Like Mystic said the mag should allow you to get out to almost 3". Figure out how long your throat is then seat the bullets a few thou off and see how it shoots.
 
speers said:
I just finished ''putting together'' a stevens 200 with a shilen select match barrel bedded into a HS stock. The damn thing dose not want to shoot better then 3/4 moa at 100 yards. Ive tried every load min to max with varget and A-max 155s and SMK 155s with new winchester brass once fired wincheser brass neck sizing full length sizing and everything else in between. Anyone have any ideas other then changing powder and bullets. I'de like to stick with varget for now cause I have 8 pounds of it and SMK or A-max cause there both easy to get for me. O the coal is 2.800 and its a 1-12 twist barrel. Somebody please tell me there is something simple im missing:redface:
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You need to experiment and change one variable at a time.

Maybe the first thing you should do is a long dry fire exercise at the range - maybe you just need to learn better trigger habits. When you dry fire do the crosshairs move? Practise your trigger control.

If that doesn't help - get a different shooter to try it.

Next remove scope mounts- check and remount the base(s) and check ring alignment. Try a different scope.
If everything checks out and no improvement found up to this point then you start looking at the barrel/action/bedding. Maybe that's as good as it will do with Varget and A-max.
 
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