Everything shooting equaly bad?

To me, It could mostly likely be load tuning, I had rebarreled my 700, Used my previous good loads from the factory barrel, was almost off the paper at 200 yards with no consistency. Would up trying 5 different bullet/load combos to finally get the one. Sometimes it can be a very frustrating process, but the fellows helping you here Jerry and Ian are knowledgeable and experienced.

Don't change too many things at once. Stay simple. It usually isn't something too complex.
 
speers said:
I'm starting to think bedding maybe my biggest issue. And the trigger might be a close second, i have noticed my self fighting with it once and a while to break the shot but they seem to stay in there group, I know i need a lighter one.

I just picked a coal of 2.800 just as a starting point and they fed well through my clip, I really would like to be able to use it as a repeater.

My dies are just RCBS small base standard dies and i picked up an RCBS neck sizing die too, should i be looking into something else?

My scopes a sightron SIII 6-24 I have no problem seeing what im shooting at and the scope worked perfect on my 7wsm so im ruleing it out for right now.

The barrel dosent get hot at all when i'm doing my load testing I generally make 5 rounds shoot them, go back inside make 5 more and shoot them (i shoot in my back yard) when load testing i went up in .25 increments.

So guys tell me if im on the right track. After the deer season I'm going to have my smith bed it for me and ill track down a sav2 trigger. (anyone know were to find one) Load up everything again see what I can come up with and then play with my seating depth? Or should I seat my bullets out a little further this time when I make my next batch of loads?

Also would primers have anything to do with it? I have just been useing up a box of old Reminton primers? Should I try something else?
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Start with ensuring the bedding is done right. Just because there is epoxy in the stock doesn't really mean much. The bedding has to cradle, support and hold the action in place. The lug should be fully bedded.

Is there lots of clearance around your barrel? paper thin is not going to be enough. More better.

Then the dies would be my next fix. RCBS small base dies will oversize that case in every dimension - no good for what you want to do. Not a fan of any sizing die with an expander ball as this can really cause runout if the decapping stem is not true.

My options include a lee collet neck sizing die, Redding body die and Forster BR inline seater - the ammo has to have little to no runout. Ever throw a football wobbly? Doesn't get any more stable the further it goes.

Confirm that your bases are not loose. Firing can and will loosen up bolts especially if there is any of that wonderful rust preventive they put on guns nowadays. Aersol brake cleaner is your friend. When the areas has completely been degreased, I can go hand tight and they tend to stay put. Blue loctite may be an option.

Make sure the holes in the bases aren't oversized for the bolts used. Common problem with generic alloy Weavers.

What type of rings? Ensured they are aligned true?

Then die set up. Set the bullet ogive to be just off the lands. You will still have no issue feeding.

WITH FIREFORMED AND PROPERLY NECK SIZED BRASS, work up your loads again and I am sure you will find some to your liking.

Match quality barrels need match quality ammo shot properly to perform their best. What type of bench and rests are you using? If there is any wobble at the shooting end, forget about bugholes at the target end.

BIPODS aren't precision testing devices (except the Remples and other top quality ski pods)

But if it is all done properly, teeny tiny groups should be the norm.

I can offer you a Timney trigger which will get you to around 1 to 1.5lbs. They are simple to install and a joy to use.

Question? how do you increase your powder charge by 0.25gr? If you are using a powder measure to drop your charges - STOP. Weigh them on a properly functioning scale - brand and cost doesn't mean it works, check it for function and repeatability.

Jerry
 
Rings and bases are both farrel, and I checked them and they are tight.

All my shooting is done off of sandbags from a solid bench.

Is there any problem with the RCBS neck sizing die I was thinking about a new seating die and body die anyways I was trying to use what i have for now.

All my charges are weight on a jennings digital scale and I use a powder trickler to go to me desired weight it wasent quite .25 increments it was more like .24 .50 .74 so it wasent exacly 1/4's but damn close

I moved my bullets out to 20 thou off the lands but there still only 2.870 coal.

The barrel is very free floated with about a 1/4" gap between the stock and barrel.
 
COAL means absolutely nothing, and it is telling me that you are not measuring off the bullet ogive. Bullet tips are HUGELY irregular from bullet to bullet. Obtain and use a bullet comparator for your particular caliber.

As long as you set your die up with the case and the bullet you used for measuring, you may be close, but i still contend you should get the bullet at the lands Yes, your shooting may reveal that 20 thou jump works well, but go for a velocity node first.

From what you are saying, this is either a load problem (I'm 95% sure) or this is a bad barrel, but you are far from having researched all the load variables. By load, I mean POWDER, BULLET and BULLET SEATING DEPTH. Primers don't make that big a difference in that type of set-up. Not all guns like all bullets and powders...an expensive, extremely frustrating fact of shooting life.
 
There are several ways of measuring seating depth and finding your lands.

One method that works well is the take a fired case and gently squeeze the case neck out of round, so that you can push a bullet into the case finger tight. It should be allowed to slid back and forth with moderate force. Too tight and the bullet will sit to far into the lands. Too light and the bullet will come out, or bind in the rifling.

Take that combo (with t he bullet seated deliberately very long) and chamber it. CAREFULLY remove the cartridge (and keep pressure on the side of the case as you withdraw the bolt, so the ejector does not push the case - and the bullet - sideways)

Measure the resulting catridge from end-to-end. repeat this several times to make sure your measurements are consistent.

Take the VERY SAME BULLET and case, and re-size the case. Do not prime or add powder......Carefully seat the very bullet you used into the case until it is exactly the same length as your measurement. (For this process you can use its COAL as the basis for the number) The die is now set up to seat bullet at the lands, and COAL no longer factors in. You will find that if measuring COAL, they will all be different. You must use the same bullet... very inportant.

This is a very effective way of finding the lands. Do your load development here, and when you find a node that is close, then use that to repeat your tests using different seating depths.

If this doesn't work, change bullets, plain and simple.
 
When you say "lateral groups with all 4 touching " it makes me think of several things. Poor setup for recoil.The rear bag needs to be aligned and preferably a really hard rear bag.Also trigger pull/control and perhaps bedding but my money is on the setup/rear bag.If it was a seating issue I don't think they would be consistantly cutting in a lateral pattern( but I may be wrong)......
 
kevguy said:
Try H4895.......Varget is over-rated.
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X2 Just because varget works in MOST guns, does not mean it works in ALL guns. I've never shot varget out of anything that I couldn't better with another powder. I don't even keep it on hand anymore.
 
Canuck525 said:
When you say "lateral groups with all 4 touching " it makes me think of several things. Poor setup for recoil.The rear bag needs to be aligned and preferably a really hard rear bag.Also trigger pull/control and perhaps bedding but my money is on the setup/rear bag.If it was a seating issue I don't think they would be consistantly cutting in a lateral pattern( but I may be wrong)......
Click to expand...

This makes some sence as I can never seam to get my rear bag 100% perfect. Can you go into a little more detail on how it should be aligned and with what?
 
The goal is to have the bags, front and rear, form a track that your stock moves along without twisting or bouncing. Many bags on the market are made out of a soft material with alot of give so under recoil, the rifle can move laterally and vertically leading to stringing.

There are some really good articles on bag set up on 6mmBR.com. The info typifies the type of equipment that is used in SR BR but works in pretty much every other form of shooting that uses front and rear bags for rests.

Any chance you can use something like a Caldwell Rock BR front pedestal rest? or something similar?

Protektor bags are very commonly used as they are the least expensive 'rigid' bag you can buy. Filled with sand blasting grit, they can work very well.

You can of course use various other sandbags, X wing varmint bags, cradle rests. Anything that will support the rifle and allow it to recoil smoothly and repeatably.

The need for this is so important, competition shooters will spend a small fortune to make this the best possible AND rules try and limit how much tech can be used.

Inconsistency of a few thou at the bench will show up as a sizeable increase in group size and impact location.

Once the basics are reviewed and you can focus on the loading and shooting, I am sure you will find that the barrel does shoot as well as expected.

Do try and get that ogive just off the lands.

Let me know if I can be of further help.

Jerry
 
speers said:
Rings and bases are both farrel, and I checked them and they are tight.

All my shooting is done off of sandbags from a solid bench.

Is there any problem with the RCBS neck sizing die I was thinking about a new seating die and body die anyways I was trying to use what i have for now.

All my charges are weight on a jennings digital scale and I use a powder trickler to go to me desired weight it wasent quite .25 increments it was more like .24 .50 .74 so it wasent exacly 1/4's but damn close

I moved my bullets out to 20 thou off the lands but there still only 2.870 coal.

The barrel is very free floated with about a 1/4" gap between the stock and barrel.
Click to expand...

If you can find one, measure the runout of the case through each stage of prep - as it comes out of the chamber, after sizing, after seating a bullet.

If the dies are working properly, there will be very little runout if any created during these steps. We try and get runout to 2thou and under. Some rifles/bullets will shoot well with runout higher but most will not.

High runout never improved groups.

Adding to the method of locating the lands, I will put jiffy marker around the bullet and look for the 6 marks caused by the lands. I will seat the bullet back in very small increments until there is only 1 or 2 land marks left. Reamers rarely cut all lands equally.

This is my just on the lands measurement. I will then back of a schnick more so that no lands mark the ogive. The bullet is maybe 1 thou or 2 off the lands. There is no jump to speak off but there is also no risk of the bullet pulling out if extracted.

From here, I tune with powder weights in very small increments. Others will also tune by moving the seating depths in and out in small increments.

I am sure the barrel will shoot very well for you. Let's remove the variables and get you dialed in.

Jerry
 
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