Example of a "humped" milsurp w/pics

kjohn

kjohn

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I see a lot of talk about "all matching" rifles in this forum. I like to find rifles that are matching, just as much as the next person. I found this CZ/BRNO 98 at a gun show. It has the top of the receiver ground clear and a semi winter trigger guard. Back in 1965 I bought two of these rifles at the Army & Navy stores, one in Regina and the other in New Westminster. Neither were "matching", but at the time I wouldn't have known any different anyway.

I bought this rifle because it will make a nice shooter. It is in good condition, with a nice bore. As well, I have a weakness for Mauser 98's.

This is very likely a prime example of humping a rifle to appear to be all matching. As the pics tell the story, let me point out why I think it has been doctored.

1. The fonts do not match. The receiver probably has the only correct one. The "3" is the most obvious.

2. Aside from the fonts not matching, the butt plate would likely not have matched even when it left the factory.

3. To add insult to injury, where the numbers are stamped on the floor plate and the front barrel band, there are dents showing from striking the numbers. Give me a break! On a factory stamp, have you ever seen dents? Not very likely.

4. One of the rifle I bought earlier has no numbers stamped in some of the places that are stamped on the humped rifle. Neither of the earlier purchases had matching bolts.

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Please feel free to add any critique(s) you want, as I am well aware of the phoney "matching numbers". :)

Hopefully this will make new collectors to be aware of such efforts to increase the value $ wise and to make it more desirable for collectors.
 
I guess it depends on what you call "humped."

Many FTRed rifles were similarly matched after the war. I have a couple very similar to yours other than the trigger guard. Both are FTRed German police rifles and are in very nice condition inside and out.

I suspect that your rifle is something similar. I also suspect that a lot of effort was made to match those numbers, maybe at the request of the end user. When it was surplussed, especially at the prices of surplus rifles in those days, it wouldn't have been worthwhile to go through all of the expense and effort to do so.

That is a nice FTRed rifle. I wouldn't be ashamed of it one bit, not that you are either.

It looks to be a Czech or maybe a Yugo FTR.
 
It is a nice rifle. That's why I bought it. The one from the 1965 purchase is just as nice, but hasn't been "matched". I am not making fun of someone else's rifle here. I posted this to show an example of what may be a hump job. Bearhunter is correct in pointing out that it may have been done with good reason. I have heard various opinions on these BRNO's with the semi winter guard. One from a way back was that they were made up post war with some of the parts made under German occupation in Czechoslovakia. The one featured here has a different front sight than the other two I have. This one is similar to a VZ24?? One fellow told me the receiver was very likely ground off when sold off from Czech surplus.

At any rate, it is definitely an interesting rifle, having come across the world into my hands. :)
 
There is a difference between rifles that have been re-numbered by an arsenal doing a refurb and a humpster trying to pass a rifle off as an original all matching specimen. Kjohn, you rifle looks refurbed by the czechs not humped by somebody in their basement..
 
definitely post war rebuild, these originally were vz24 actions . if you have a good look at the top of the action you will be able to see where the original markings were removed.
odd that its a different font though. I will have to check mine. do you have any close ups of the sides of the action?
 
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The definitition of humped in the milsurp world refers only to rifles remembered for the purpose of deception and greed.

A decent post war rework is what it is.
 
the two post war Czechs I have are also done the same way. although the barrel bands and butt plate are unmarked.
why is the front of the trigger guard assembly sitting so proud of the wood is it installed incorrectly?
 
Hmm. I'm still not convinced. Neither of my two earlier purchases had numbers on the barrel bands, nor the stock. On this one, the separate bolt parts are also stamped "03", of the type differing from the receiver number font. A question - would the 2503 on the receiver be the original VZ24 serial number? There doesn't appear to be any grinding right there.

I shall have to look into the trigger guard matter. Thanks for pointing that out.

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Even on original k98k there are minor variences on font size and style.

In my opinion your rifle is some sort of rework. Not humped.

Not many people would hump a Mauser and not bother have German markings.
 
I agree with CanadianAR. I don't think your rifle is humped at all. It's either a rework of some sort on a post war built K98k or it left the factory this way. It was not a vz24 at one time but a K98k right from the start. Built post war from either post war made parts or left over WW2 parts.

Also, as CanadianAR mentioned, comparing font size and style from one part of a rifle to another is not always a good indicator of if a rifle is legit or not. Many makers used several different sizes and styles to stamp different parts on the same rifle. If you look at the byf 44 c block I recently posted, you can clearly see the different size font on the bolt stop as compared to other parts on the rifle. What you have to compare to is other known rifles and pay attention to manufactures trends.

Do some research and see if you can find other post war Czech made K98k's with same font and numbering patterns.

It's a really nice rifle Kjohn. I like it.
 
Okay! I give in. The dents and the different font fooled me. Darn! That's the second time I've been wrong this year! :p At least I was wrong the right way...:confused:

This one does have the larger serial number stamped on the underside of the stock, behind the grip. Once I get my screwdriver set home, I'll dip in to the markings underside.

Thanks for the input. I'm glad I scooped this one. I also have a chance at having a Spanish Air Force Mauser come my way. I'll post that one when it is safely in the pile. :)
 
Well, I might as well bury myself good and proper. The stock has the serial number in the barrel trough as well, so that sort of seals it. Lots of grease on the inner workings. The front floor plate screw hole has a spacer under it, making it proud of the inlet in the stock. I will put it back the way it came to me. There is likely a good reason for it. :)
 
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