HF barrels are just as bad... still problems with latent stresses.
Nobody said a fluted barrel isn't rigid, it's just they will bend as they heat up. increasingly curved and rigid is a bad thing... as I have discovered every morning of my life.
Experienced gunsmith for 6.5 x 47mm Lapua
- Thread starter 358Scout
- Start date
HF barrels are just as bad... still problems with latent stresses.
Nobody said a fluted barrel isn't rigid, it's just they will bend as they heat up. increasingly curved and rigid is a bad thing... as I have discovered every morning of my life.
I'm still just a (relatively) young buck, but I gotta say, don't complain, as long as the barrel is still rigid. Once the steel loses it's temper, a bit of curve will be the least of your concerns
Thankfully my heavy barrel still shoots better the more rounds I put down it, but even once the overbore calibre degrades the accuracy, I won't complain so long as I always hear a bang instead of a click.
So I suppose the viability of applying flutes has everything to do with the quality of the steel and the effectiveness of the stress-relieving that was done to the barrel, then?
... and this thread has officially been derailed...
Run cnc cut helical flutes and indexing will never be a problem....The only advantage/or disadvantage we can prove is that weight is greatly reduced. Our clients appreciate that more than most can...
Additionally our rifles are routinely subjected to excessive rates of fire and heat and accuracy problems at any time are very rare.
Others mileage may vary of course...
Additionally our rifles are routinely subjected to excessive rates of fire and heat and accuracy problems at any time are very rare.
Others mileage may vary of course...
You guys are using the best barrels out there... that's a great start.
I would also think CNC helical fluting would be inherently better.Helical fluting is also a patented process in the US... E.R. Shaw holds the patent, (#6,324,780) so unless someone was to buy the rights, it's hard to find except on your excellent rifles and the Shaw field grade barrels.
winchester_070
Regular
- Location
- North Central BC
It was stated that "Not all fluted barrels are a problem, but fluting is a mechanical form of stress relieving." Is that a fact or an opinion ? I am not looking to open a can of worms but i am trying to learn the ins and outs of building a rifle barrel and so far have completed 2 of them ( Buttoned ) and am always looking for info on steel stresses and properties . I use cruciable 416R which is double stress relieved and also have 4140 which is also doulble stress relieved but i know that after machining there are introduced stresses , if you look at how a cutter especially a negative rake ( carbide ) actually cuts (displaces ) the metal i can not see how it would do anything but introduce stresses . So in my mind by cutting flutes you would be introducing stress and not stress relieving . Therefore if you want a perfect barrel that will not shift after heating up maybe it should be stress relieved after fluteing . But now that we have opened that can ,what about after the taper has been turned or the threads cut ect ect ..... these are just my thoughts , looking forward to hearing others opinions on this .....
Gary
Gary
Yes and yes....
http://shilen.com/faq.html#question8
http://riflebarrels.ca/html/barrel_facts.html
If you have a double stress-relieved cut rifled barrel, fluting is a safer proposition. Not all fluted barrels are a problem - even buttoned barrels.
There is much argument on the subject, but as Guntech says, it never improves a barrel, just risks making it worse.
You will find almost no serious F-Class shooters using fluted barrels and cannot ever recall seeing a TR class competitor shooting with one either.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
The issue with fluting is how close the cut gets to the bore?
How symmetrical are the flutes in depth and size?
How symmetrical are the flutes around the barrel?
How 'gentle' was the cutting done and are the cuts parallel with the bore or exterior?
The cosmetic flutes offered by Rem and Savage are just that - cosmetic. They are so shallow that they remove little metal so risk little issue with barrel bulge.
I read somewhere that a 'gunsmith' did some testing by machining and fluting barrels to see when he would have problems. He saw that if the thickness of the metal was at least 30thou on either side of the bore, things usually were ok. He also stopped the flutes a few inches away from the muzzle.
He found that barrels with small diameter muzzles were most prone to issues and he surmissed that it was the bore bulging.
Shallow flutes never caused any problems with these barrels. It shot as well before as after.
I have had a couple of fluted match barrels that shot just fine. However, Shilen voids the barrels warranty if fluting is done. McGowen flutes barrels on a regular basis but does limit how small a contour vs bore they go.
YMMV.
Jerry
How symmetrical are the flutes in depth and size?
How symmetrical are the flutes around the barrel?
How 'gentle' was the cutting done and are the cuts parallel with the bore or exterior?
The cosmetic flutes offered by Rem and Savage are just that - cosmetic. They are so shallow that they remove little metal so risk little issue with barrel bulge.
I read somewhere that a 'gunsmith' did some testing by machining and fluting barrels to see when he would have problems. He saw that if the thickness of the metal was at least 30thou on either side of the bore, things usually were ok. He also stopped the flutes a few inches away from the muzzle.
He found that barrels with small diameter muzzles were most prone to issues and he surmissed that it was the bore bulging.
Shallow flutes never caused any problems with these barrels. It shot as well before as after.
I have had a couple of fluted match barrels that shot just fine. However, Shilen voids the barrels warranty if fluting is done. McGowen flutes barrels on a regular basis but does limit how small a contour vs bore they go.
YMMV.
Jerry
I set the flute to the top so you have solid barrel at the stock line and you can see how floated the barrel is and I think it looks better. It is also easier to set a flute on top as you can simply place a small level on it and level the action on tightening it.
I wasn't kidding about painting your barrel flat black to get it to cool off quicker either... I first found out about that flat black trick back in the 70's racing snowmobiles. Heads that were painted flat black ran way cooler than those left natural aluminum. Heat is dissipated through the black more quickly. Of course if left in the sun it will also heat up more quickly.
You guys are using the best barrels out there... that's a great start.
Helical fluting is also a patented process in the US... E.R. Shaw holds the patent, (#6,324,780) so unless someone was to buy the rights, it's hard to find except on your excellent rifles and the Shaw field grade barrels.
Only in the USA could you patent a common machining practice.
I once heard that a fluted barrel is more stiff than a non fluted barrel of the same overall weight, could be BS but it is an interesting theory.
My Krieger #5 with 10 flutes in 6.5x47 shoots just fine. I don't care what he did when he twisted it on and chambered it, but he did it right. If you are in Alberta call Henry Rempel. He is a LR shooter and a great machinist and Gun Plumber. The service was great.
. I don't care what he did when he twisted it on and chambered it, but he did it right. If you are in Alberta call Henry Rempel. He is a LR shooter and a great machinist and Gun Plumber. The service was great.
gunasauras
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Western Manitoba
I'll pipe in a hearty second for Jerry's work. Best I've seen by far.....
- Location
- Ft. Mac. Alberta
Mick's as old as dirt , too!
Fluting, IMO, works for the kewl factor, otherwise Ii wouldn't bother....
Cat
lol. Every time I carry my rifle through the Alberta hills/mountains I look for pieces of metal that can be left behind. Everytime I am on the range I want more metal. There is definitely a benefit to fluting. Many of the new production sniper rifles are fluted for example.
This fall, my barrel is not fluted. We'll see how that goes. Might end up leaving my scope at camp instead. :/
