Experienced Hunter/Noob reloader... load questions;

hoytcanon

hoytcanon

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Hello folks... I have been bowhunting and shotgunning for over forty years... I am just getting in to reloading, mostly because it interests my son... We will be trying to cook-up some hunting loads for .243 (deer) and .308 (moose, bear etc...)and varmint loads for .223.

If anyone is inclined to help us narrow down the choices with pet loads that have performed well for you, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
 
You've been hunting for a long time, so you know for your 308 you just buy a box of ammo loaded with 180 grain bullets and go moose hunting. I'll bet you didn't really care what brand of ammunition you got! You knew that any descent hit and the moose soon dies.
Use the same theory for reloading your 308 for moose hunting.
For the 243 I highly reccommend a premium bullet in 100 grain weight. Because I long ago found that a Nosler partition was a fine bullet, that is the brand I stuck with. I'm sure some of the newer "premium" bullets with the fancy names and high prices would be equally suitable.
Slow powder, like H4831, or similar, are the best choices for the 243 with 100 grain bullets.
 
I like Hornday 165 gr BTSP with 43 gr Varget for moose & deer That's the load I make up for my .308. Try several starting at 42 going to 45 going up by 1/2 grain to see which one is the most accurate in your rifle.

It's a reasonably priced bullet (about $30/100) and so you can use them for practice as well.

I dont have a .243
 
For the .223: 30 grs of W748 and a 55 gr bullet. (this is a "MAX" load so start at 10% less and work up).

For the .243 for deer: 46 grs of H4831 and any good 100 gr bullet.

For the .308 for moose: 46 grs of H380 with a 180 gr Nosler Partition.
 
Nosler loading Manual , pick caliber , pick desired bullet , look for most accurate powder, also check for fastest MV that is accurate. Work up gradually to Max loads, but have a base line to go back to ie. clean or warm barrel , weather and wind, and even temp, some powders are temp sensitive. The trip is as much fun as the destination. Respectfully Jim Mansell
 
I happen to reload for all those 3 calibers.
I've been reloading since 1960.
1st thing is to buy 4 good reloading manuals.
Lyman, Hornady, Speer and Nosler.
Read them till you understand them.
Then you pick your loads.
Don't try to overload.
Don't use loads given to you online.
They might be dangerous in [your firearm].
Before you pick a load, check that load in all 4 books.
Be carefull and you will enjoy a lifetime hobby.
I have taken many animals with my reloads, and I still use them exclusively.
Old gunsmith and reloader Lou
 
colombe said:
I happen to reload for all those 3 calibers.
I've been reloading since 1960.
1st thing is to buy 4 good reloading manuals.
Lyman, Hornady, Speer and Nosler.
Read them till you understand them.
Then you pick your loads.
Don't try to overload.
Don't use loads given to you online.
They might be dangerous in [your firearm].
Before you pick a load, check that load in all 4 books.
Be carefull and you will enjoy a lifetime hobby.
I have taken many animals with my reloads, and I still use them exclusively.
Old gunsmith and reloader Lou
Click to expand...

Heed this advice, best reply thus far.
 
I would start with Varget as your first powder, it should give you good results in all 3 calibres and you won't have to shell out as much cash for powder.
 
No offence to Goldenlakepete, but I would seriously head any advice about max loads on this forum. even 10% less of the load that you listed for 223 is 0.7gns higher than what is considered a MAX load on the hodgedon loading manual online. This load might be for your firearm but I wouldn't be giving this advice to someone just starting to reload.
 
Goldenlakepete said:
For the .223: 30 grs of W748 and a 55 gr bullet. (this is a "MAX" load so start at 10% less and work up).

For the .243 for deer: 46 grs of H4831 and any good 100 gr bullet.

For the .308 for moose: 46 grs of H380 with a 180 gr Nosler Partition.
Click to expand...

nevanevan said:
No offence to Goldenlakepete, but I would seriously head any advice about max loads on this forum. even 10% less of the load that you listed for 223 is 0.7gns higher than what is considered a MAX load on the hodgedon loading manual online. This load might be for your firearm but I wouldn't be giving this advice to someone just starting to reload.
Click to expand...
Nice.
GLP decides to share a few recipes that work for him and, of course, you can't take loads off of the internet even though it was stated that this was a MAX load.

GLP, how in the hell can you get 30gns of 748 in that case, since 28 for me is a compressed load (also stated in the Speer Manual #14 but not indicated in the Barnes #3) but that is beside the point.

Point here being, Nevanevan, is that the Hodgdon site (being on the internet and quite open to liability and litigation) is quite mild for load info and you can normally go WAY above those and still be safe in a decent rifle. Many of my most accurate loads occur above Hodgdon's max published loads. That is the advantage (and necessity) of having numerous other sources to turn to. What if you are loading and reach the max listed online and still have not found that node where your groups coalesce giving you your best group and velocity, but show no signs of high pressure generation? Do you just stop? What if, just for sh!ts and giggles, you had another manual that told you that the max was 27gns and you went up another 1/2 to 26.8 and found your sweet spot, wouldn't that be better?

Just for kicks, let's look at some of the other loads in the books on my bench for W748 and a 55gn .223 bullet you may encounter as a newbie reloader and cause you to scratch your head...

Reference Min Max

Hodgdon (2006) 26.3
Lyman 49th 25 27.8 (already above Hodgdon max)
Sierra 5th 24.3 26.7
Speer 14th 26.0 28.0C
Hornady 9th 22.7 26.4
Winchester 26.2
Barnes #3 24.0 28

So, we see here that almost everyone else lists higher data for max loads than does Hodgdon's and, many times, even those are still not the max in your rifle. That is why you must "work up" your load to your specific components and weapon.

How would you advise the newbie reloader who only has the Winchester booklet at his/her disposal? There is no start load, it is only 1/10 of a grain below Hodgdon's MAX load!! What can he do?? And as for your math?? We see that 10% less than GLP's load falls an entire grain under two listed max loads, so, still safe to start there and work up.
 
I understood the premise of working up to a max load. As far a beginner is concerned, I would advise they stay the hell away from max loads untill well after they fully understand the process and the dangers of overloading. For most concerned loads listed in my Nosler manual it suggests that the most accurate load is usually the slowest velocity wise, a max load is not always the most accurate, and while the new reloader is tuning his technique he will be able to work on many other variables that will increase his accuracy before adding more powder to the equation. Also as the OP has stated he is looking to begin reloading to shoot dear and varmints at probably reasonable distances guessing maybe 200yards (not 1 mile), and not competition target shooting, so if by working at safe published loads his groups are 1/2" bigger at 100yards, I think that is alot safer than blowing the gun up in front of his or his sons face. I'm sure with some practice the OP will have his technique down and in about a month will start a thread about "working with MAX loads".

As for the math you question me on. 30gns(GLP's max load)-10%(3gns)=27gns, 27gns(GLP's 10%reduced load)-26.3gns(hodgedon max load for 55gn sp)=0.7gns above max published load. I apologize for that being confusing as I am only referencing one max load from a published site, not 6 manuals. I do not mean to seem hostile, I think it is just unsafe to advise giving MAX loads to somebody unfamiliar with reloading that specifically asked for "PET loads"

Evan
 
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Goldenlakepete, you copied the load for a 243 and a 100 grain bullet with 46 grains of H4831, from my personal notes! But let me explain.
My best information on loading data is my notes, recording what I have done in the past. Yes, I know that not all rifles are the same, that some can take more pressure than another bolt action in the same calibre. I have had two pairs like this, one in 243 and the other in 30-06. With each pair, if identical loads were used, rifle B shot about 75 to 100 fps faster. As well, rifle's B would reach maximum pressure with less powder than would rifle's A. Therefore, if loading to maximum pressure for rifle's A, I had to keep the ammo separated from rifle's B ammo.
In the case of the 243, 46 of H4831 was too high for rifle B, but fine in rifle A, which happened to be a 77 Ruger, tang safety and was my favourite load, except when I could get Norma 205.
I sold the Ruger some time ago and fairly recently bought a new bolt Marlin, XL something or other 243 model. I checked out my favourite H4831 with the 100 grain bullet. I soon found that it could take the same load as the Ruger, rifle A, 46 grains, without a whimper or a burp. It also got nearly identical velocity as the Ruger did, just under 3,100 fps. The convenience of this is that I can look through my Ruger records and load any load I had used in the Ruger, in my new Marlin.
Then I took a look at the Hodgdon's on line loading charts. For the 243 Winchester and 100 grain bullets, they show a maximum of 42 grains of H4831!
So, to the original poster, I strongly recommend that you use the standard loading books completely, for reloading.
After some years of experience, coupled with careful observation, you likely will be able to load your 243 rifle to get the velocities it was designed for.
Good luck, Bruce
 
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