external hammer SxS hard to find?

[schick]

Seems tough finding sources for sise by side shotguns with external hammers. I looked around the EE a bit, as well as cheked marstar (sold out, as usual) and a few sponsor sites.

I am guessing that these simply aren't produced much anymore due to demand.

I was hoping to get an idea what these types of ####guns are worth, as I plan on using one for regular shells, as well as blackpowder. Our club requires external hammers for blackpowder competitons.

 

[ENIGMATIC1]

Seems tough finding sources for sise by side shotguns with external hammers. I looked around the EE a bit, as well as cheked marstar (sold out, as usual) and a few sponsor sites.

I am guessing that these simply aren't produced much anymore due to demand.

I was hoping to get an idea what these types of s**tguns are worth, as I plan on using one for regular shells, as well as blackpowder. Our club requires external hammers for blackpowder competitons.

Baikal makes a SXS coach gun with functioning external hammers:
http://www.baikalcanada.com/shot_guns_43K.htm

as does CZ:
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/hammer-coach-ss-case-hardened/

and CZ also makes an external hammer sxs with 30" barrels:
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/hammer-classic/

 

[Grouse Man]

How about a Bernardelli Brescia?

 

[D-Man]

Tradeex has a lot of old double hammer guns, mostly mfg. by Husqvarna. Most of them are advertised as shootable, so should be fine for black powder at least.

 

[schick]

Baikal makes a SXS coach gun with functioning external hammers:
http://www.baikalcanada.com/shot_guns_43K.htm

as does CZ:
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/hammer-coach-ss-case-hardened/

and CZ also makes an external hammer sxs with 30" barrels:
http://cz-usa.com/products/view/hammer-classic/

That Baikal actually look spretty good. Thanks for links. I'm guessing that I have CZ tastes and a Baikal budget.

How about a Bernardelli Brescia?

Wow. Noice color hardening. The finish on the barrels looks like a mirror.

Tradeex has a lot of old double hammer guns, mostly mfg. by Husqvarna. Most of them are advertised as shootable, so should be fine for black powder at least.

I really need to remember Tradeex. I haven't dealt with them. How the hell do they get all that stock? Lots of nice long barrels. That's a perk for clays. I noticed tons of Huskys as well as some brands called Suhl or FEG. I suppose the Huskys are recommended. It's obvious I don't know much about shotgun brands.

 

[Suputin]

A nice original sxs external hammer shotgun is difficult to find. I've been looking for one for years now. Original guns will almost always be chambered in 2 1/4" and really should only be used with black powder.

 

[straightshooter]

A nice original sxs external hammer shotgun is difficult to find. I've been looking for one for years now. Original guns will almost always be chambered in 2 1/4" and really should only be used with black powder.

The older hammer guns are usually chambered in 2 1/2", actually. They should be fired with black powder because that's what they were proven for, but they can be fired with low-pressure nitro (smokeless) loads, if they're in very good condition. Gamebore out of the UK markets a line of 2 1/2" low-pressure nitro shells that fit the bill nicely (available through Kent Cartridge in Canada, special order). I use them in all my classic British and other vintage hammer guns (including one of Tradex's Husqvarnas).

SXS hammer guns that are proven for nitro and chambered for 2 3/4", or longer, are hard to come by these days. The same, with removable chokes, are even more difficult to find. There are a few manufacturers like Bernardelli who still make them - usually on special order basis only and you'd better have deep pockets or want them desperately.

The best deal on the market for a nitro proven, 2 3/4" chambered, SXS hammer gun is a now-discontinued model once offered by Baikal (fixed chokes only). Being a consumate SXS hammer lover, I've managed to acquire one in each of 12, 16, and 20 gauge. They're no Bernardelli, but they're solidly made and perfect for the uplands. If you plan on chopping the barrels down, do us all a favour and buy one of their current coach guns - there's few enough long barreled ones as it is!!

 

[jethunter]

Most of thre Tradeex sxs Husqvarna shotguns are model 20C. External hammers, 2.5" chamber. Fluid steel barrels made for smokeless (albeit low pressure 2.5" shell). These were made right up into the 1940s or 50s. They would be suitable for black powder as well. I bought one some time back for $250. It had mirror bores is tight and works nicely. Drawback is you need to reload or buy 2.5" shells for it.

 

[ENIGMATIC1]

That Baikal actually look spretty good. Thanks for links. I'm guessing that I have CZ tastes and a Baikal budget.

Not a problem.

Yea, I have the Baikal I had the CZ taste Baikal budget myself...

Seems to be a very nice firearm. Only issue is the rear trigger on mine I think got curved too far as it tears up my trigger finger when I shoot that barrel... Going to have to contact Baikal about that one of these days I guess.

 

[schick]

Most of thre Tradeex sxs Husqvarna shotguns are model 20C. External hammers, 2.5" chamber. Fluid steel barrels made for smokeless (albeit low pressure 2.5" shell). These were made right up into the 1940s or 50s. They would be suitable for black powder as well. I bought one some time back for $250. It had mirror bores is tight and works nicely. Drawback is you need to reload or buy 2.5" shells for it.

Thanks for pointing this out. I didn't pay attention enough to notice they were only 2.5. I'm guessing a guy could slip over a carefully measured section of pipe as a cutting guide. I was hoping to star crimp in my old Mec 600 jr.

 

[schick]

Not a problem.

Yea, I have the Baikal I had the CZ taste Baikal budget myself...

Seems to be a very nice firearm. Only issue is the rear trigger on mine I think got curved too far as it tears up my trigger finger when I shoot that barrel... Going to have to contact Baikal about that one of these days I guess.

Are the Baikals expensive. I sure would like the option of switching between smokelss and black powder whenever my mood dictated.

Too bad I can't locate any of the cheap Norinco side by sides.

 

[surfer365]

Wouldn't one of the Thalmann 125 from Tradex work with both smokeless and blackpowder. It shoots 2 3/4" shells and at $250 it would be a lot cheaper than the Baikals.

EDIT ** I didn't see the external hammer requirement

 

[Baribal]

If you look carefully, you can find treasures in the Husqvarna shotguns. I have one of the 800 external hammers top lever model 50 circa 1928, I also have a model 20/B i.e. Lefaucheux action (those having a big lever underneath the action), in new, unfired condition. I also have a couple of model 20 16 ga and you can find very interesting combo SxS (Cape Guns) with one barrel being made with either straight rifling (following the same axis as the barrel) or with a pitched (spiral) rifling.
The model deisgnations for the HVA hammerguns are;
M22/22A (1877-80),
the Lefaucheux actionned external hammers shotguns are M/14/14A (1877-82, M/15 (1877-1900), M/15 New Model (1900/1942), M/16 (1877-1889), M/17 (1877-1899), M/17 New Model (1900-1942), M/17A, 17B, 17C (1891-1942), M/18 and M/19 (1877-1891), M/20 Old Model and M/20A (1877-1900 and 1901-1946), M/20B (1944-1956), M/28 (1877-1883), M/29 (1877-1880), M/33 (1877-1880). Some of these models are much rarer than others and as previously specified, the Model 20 is the most common (90 000 made).

There is also the Clef-Serpent actioned (very, very nice and desirable guns) M/38-39 (1879-1891), M/41 (1880-1895), M/43 (1879-1899) and the M/40/41 made on the the Roux action (1879-1883).

The M/31 and 32 (1877-1880), M/34, 35 and 36, M/39 M/40 (1886-1891), made with the "English Underlever" system.

The model 42 (1879-1899), M/44 (1879-1892), M/47 (1884-1899), M/48 and M/49 (1900-1913), M/48A (1901-1913), 48B and 48C (1910-1913), M/50 (1901-1913), M/50 New Model (1927-1934), the M/100 and 101 (1905-1912) all have a similar type of top-lever, back action system (actually, there is two different configurations).

The models 45 (1880-1903), M/46 (1880-1903), M/51 (1911-1947) M/52 (1913-1937), M/52A (1913-1929), 52B and 52C (1913-1938), M/102 (1905-1910), M/103, 103A, B and C, AS BS, CS, AN, BN, CN (1935-1940) all use the Greener type crossbolt system.

Any of these are very good to start a collection. You may have some years of fun to spend there. Some models are heavily engraved, others are quite plain. Some have Walnut stocks, other have beech stock. But all are external hammers.

As for Trade Ex supply of Husqvarna and other Swedish firearms, they are imported from Sweden, following the restrictions the country have set regarding ownership of firearms. A lot of these fine arms are pure bargain, but it won't last forever.

 

[Baribal]

No doubt the (VR Ernst Tahlmann) Suhl shotguns are much better guns than the Baikal, and really not comparable to any chinese produced guns.
I use one every grouse seasons.

 

[Backwoods]

I have a CZ Coachgun with hammers. Love it.

 

[ENIGMATIC1]

Are the Baikals expensive. I sure would like the option of switching between smokelss and black powder whenever my mood dictated.

Too bad I can't locate any of the cheap Norinco side by sides.

I think I got mine for 600 or 650. Not sure what you can get 'em for now.

 

[Wild-Wild-West]

Hi there,

It seems that the Hammer gun has made a resurgence lately for some unknown reason. I picked up a 1960's vintage TOZ-66 a few years back, as I am a devout SxS person. I use this gun for every clay sport and shoot the midest to the highest pressure rounds through it, and it still has not gone "sideways" on me.

I guess I lucked out 2 years ago during the "tactical" phase as Ellwood Epps had this on their catalogue and they told me that it was a hard sell at the time. I was lucky enough to pick it up for $200.

I later read an article somewhere that in England, there was a place that they proof tested shotguns by dropping in a 20 Ga shell followed by a 12 Ga shell and fired the weapon to see if it would hold up. Surprisingly, the Baikal that they tested were among the very few that survived. (Do not try this at home!!!) I will have to dig around to see if I can find that article again.

Since that time, I have also acquired a hammerless IJ58 from Tradex that I use as regularly as well. They still have one exactly like mine on sale:

http://www.tradeexcanada.com/index.php?option=com_paxgallery&task=view&gid=9&iid=2697

I have not shown this piece any mercy either, and it also keeps on ticking... I felt this too was a great deal for me at $169 CDN. Mine was in great shape except for a little ware on the bluing, and no cracks at all on the stock. I love the straight stock as it makes for a fast shouldering gun.


On the other hand, CZ has recently announced a full double hammer of which I have been trying to get!

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/hammer-classic/

A real "deal" for the sub $1000 USD that they are asking for it! The only problem is that I have not been able to find any dealers up in Canada that would bring one in. If anyone knows of a good CZ importer, please let me know!!!

There are some good buys on SxS out there. Just have to really look for them...

w.w.w.

 

[cb350racer]

A real "deal" for the sub $1000 USD that they are asking for it! The only problem is that I have not been able to find any dealers up in Canada that would bring one in. If anyone knows of a good CZ importer, please let me know!!!

w.w.w.

Hi, I recently had my local gun shop order me in a CZ hammer coach. I believe they brought it in from "London Arms" (In Ontario I think). They had one in stock, so I got in under two weeks. A little more expensive, but I really like it.

 

[Backwoods]

Hi, I recently had my local gun shop order me in a CZ hammer coach. I believe they brought it in from "London Arms" (In Ontario I think). They had one in stock, so I got in under two weeks. A little more expensive, but I really like it.

Mine doesn't have the 30" barrels...but I got it at Canadian Tire. $950 I think.

 

[straightshooter]

Hi, I recently had my local gun shop order me in a CZ hammer coach. I believe they brought it in from "London Arms" (In Ontario I think). They had one in stock, so I got in under two weeks. A little more expensive, but I really like it.

Wild-Wild-West is looking for the long barrelled version that CZ USA has in their catalogue, but which is not available in Canada.

Even though you're talking with your dollars more than actually saying the words, I agree with you WWW, the long-barrel CZ hammer gun would be a monster hit, if they brought them into Canada. I wonder if they're too busy trying to keep up with the American demand to want to open up another market just yet. Before you go spending an extra $250 to get one imported, you might want to consider writing to CZ USA and ask them to make them available through the Canadian dealer channel.

There are PLENTY of CZ dealers in Canada - all it would take is a decision by CZ USA and they'd be available everywhere. The Canadian CZ market is already distributed through CZ USA (your CZ shotgun comes in a CZ USA box, when you buy it here), so it could happen at the stroke of a pen, if we are able to convince them to add that model to the Canadian catalogue.