Factory ammo, that's a doozy!

kman300

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A friend of mine has been wanting to go hunting with me for for two seasons now and he bought himself a Tikka T3 stainless synthetic in 300 WSM and I gave him a 3200 3-9x40 I had I wasn't using. He doesn't want to reload at this time and I'm too busy to take that on for him at this point, so he's been buying various "cheap" (no such thing in a wsm) cup and core brands of ammo for the upcoming white tail hunt. He's been doing a good job practicing and he's taking it serious and he's settled on the 180gr Federal powershock ammo as his ammo of choice and I watched him shoot 4 different 3 shot groups at 100m that were all under 1.5". He's happy with that and it's plenty good for the 100m shot or less he will be taking this fall.
So he goes to various shops and picks up a box of 180gr powershock here and there, whenever he has the chance and ends up with 10 boxes and he's happy with that and set for years to come. To make a long story short, he's shot up 80 rounds, from various boxes, and he's going crazy. Good group one day, not good the next day with the "same" ammo from a different box. He starts doubting his shooting ability and then his equipment. Scope must be bad cause it was used when I gave it to him so he buys a 3500 elite and nothing changes. Two piece bases must be bad so he gets talley lw. Rifle must be dirty so he's cleaning it furiously (I dyna bore coated it when he got it and he's been using wipe out so no damage actually being done to the bore). He did all this crazy stuff without telling me about it and when he did the first thing I said was let's check the ammo.

Runout is so bad you can see the bullets wobble on a piece of glass on some rounds. Seating depth base to ogive varies by 20 thou. And here is the best bit. I pulled some bullets with the intention of checking to make sure they are 180gr bullets and to weigh some cases and it turns out there are THREE different types of powder being used. Charge weights averaged 67.5gr, 69gr and 72gr respectively for each different type of powder. Brass weight had a spread of up to 8gr for cases.

I'm glad I don't buy factory ammo for anything other than cheap brass or curing dyna bore coat etc. I would love to know how many rabbit holes were chased by people or animals wounded or missed because even though you think you're buying the same box of ammo year after year the powder inside is actually different.

He did learn his lesson and is keeping all his brass and get reloading after santa brings him what he needs this christmas.
 
The variations in powder isn't surprising as they use different stuff from lot to lot , to get consistent ammo it needs to come from the same lot. I'm surprised at the amount of variation in the brass but again most likely a different lot. There is a reason you handload if you want consistent results.
 
I can't believe refinerys from all over make the same product when talking fuel-but it meets standards. The hap-hazard method of buying the ammo raised the flag for me. I shoot both factory and handloads. With the factory it has to be the same lot as I will use while hunting or I move on to a new lot and re-sight to make things centre.
 
He should quit cleaning it and see what happens. I see it over and over again on factory barrels; you take a bunch out of it and you just have to put it back in. The natural state of a barrel is dirty.
 
He should quit cleaning it and see what happens. I see it over and over again on factory barrels; you take a bunch out of it and you just have to put it back in. The natural state of a barrel is dirty.

Well, not dirty per say, but a couple of "fouling" shots work in many rifles depending on the powder & bullet used.
 
Well, not dirty per say, but a couple of "fouling" shots work in many rifles depending on the powder & bullet used.

And in others it takes a whole box to settle down. The guy cleans furiously, and regards 10 boxes of shells as a large amonnt. In two years he shoots 80 rounds (4 whole boxes) and yet cleans furiously? What constitutes furiously for a two box a year shooter?
 
In defense of Federal, I've used nothing but their ammo for over 30 years...but for most of that time I stuck with the "Premium" line, always with Sierra Gamekings, 25.06, 30.06 and 300 WM. Switched to (Federal) Fusion in recent years for the 25.06, and Federal Barnes TTSX in the .300. Always capable of sub one inch groups. Very little difference, often none, from one box to the next in placement.

I would speculate that Federal's "Blue Box" is as much about price on the shelf as anything else...there's a market for cheap ammo. Would not surprise me to learn that they don't apply quite the same quality standards as their premium lines of ammo.

My thinking is like in those ads...

Nice rifle - $1000
Quality scope - $600
Season's worth of expenses to hunt - $500 (but probably more)

An extra buck-fifty for a good quality bullet when the moment of truth arrives - Priceless!

:)
 
He should quit cleaning it and see what happens. I see it over and over again on factory barrels; you take a bunch out of it and you just have to put it back in. The natural state of a barrel is dirty.
Well, not dirty per say, but a couple of "fouling" shots work in many rifles depending on the powder & bullet used.
Every rifle is different. Starting from a clean barrel, I have a .308 Win rifle that takes no less than five fouling shots before the barrel 'settles down'. As mentioned, don't expect stellar results from cheap, budget ammo. *But* sometimes I have been surprised.
 
Very interesting thread.
I noticed that Federal's blue box .22 ammo was quite inconsistent in my 10-22.
Although marked as high velocity, some rounds seemed incapable of cycling the bolt enough, and I found a case had remained in the chamber not infrequently.
After a tune-up, including rounding and polishing the corner of the bolt that overrides the hammer, that went away.
But afterward you could still tell from the sound of the shot and the feel of the bolt recoil that some rounds were inconsistent in powder charge.
Even though they came from the same box from the same brick.

Winchester premium ammo, no problems. Very consistent.
 
one box of ammo and another box of ammo (same brand and same lot #) should NEVER be expected to shoot the same

every time a new box is opened I resight for that box
 
one box of ammo and another box of ammo (same brand and same lot #) should NEVER be expected to shoot the same

every time a new box is opened I resight for that box

If they're the same lot# they should be all exactly the same as they were made at the same time. Different lot#'s I would agree, take nothing for granted.
 
Nice rifle - $1000
Quality scope - $600
Season's worth of expenses to hunt - $500 (but probably more)

An extra buck-fifty for a good quality bullet when the moment of truth arrives - Priceless!

:)


Exactly. I've worked at a hunting/gun store for a few years now and I've noticed this is very common. People are willing to drop $1500-2000 on a rifle/scope and proceed to buy the cheapest ammo on the shelves. Especially in magnum chamberings due to the high price of ammo. Those super fast velocities can result in some serious bullet failures also.

Only one part of your whole set-up ever touches the animal, and that's the bullet. Definitely worth spending the coin.
 
price of ammo doesn't dictate accuracy. I bought a 10 box lot of 150grn 270 fed blue box. shoots under an inch. old silver box 180 win silver tip shoots under an inch in my rem 30 06. I have had cheep ammo shoot great and expensive stuff shoot like crap. I always have had good luck with federal too bad the brass is crap.
 
Accuracy is only half the battle. What happens upon impact is the other half.

Watched as a hunting partner drilled a whitetail doe in the neck at about 50 yards with a 6mm Rem, 80 gr cup and core bullet. Killed the doe, fortunately, but the bullet blew up on impact, almost zero penetration. Too much speed to go with too light of a bullet, coupled with poor construction.

That's how Nosler Partitions came into being; Mr. Nosler had a close run in with a very large bull moose that got a tad worked up when his bullets failed to hold together and get the job done. Apparently, after several more shots, the moose slid into the dirt very close to where he was standing. He went home, disgusted, and invented a better bullet...and the rest is history.

I also put in some time behind the counter at a sporting goods store. It's amazing (meaning discouraging) how little most hunters know about ammo (or their own guns, for that matter). "Gimme a box of 30.06 ammo." "What kind?" "180 grain." "Okay, but what make and bullet?" "I dunno, whatcha got?" So, you explain bullet construction, etc., and you know in a heartbeat they have no idea what you're talking about...and very often go for the cheap stuff anyway. And I seriously doubt that many sight their rifles in from one make of ammo to the next, and even for different weights.

*sigh*
 
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I don't worry too much until I put 100 rounds or so thru a barrel. Then I sight in and don't clean until I see accuracy degrade.

I have a 223 that I know, based on log book, that it will need "cleaning" around 150 rounds. It gets a very light cleaning and I then check the "clean cold bore" shot and don't clean it until it hits 150 or so rounds and acuracy fades.

Most people clean a barrel way too much, IMO.
 
I am far from an expert, but I trust Federal ammo and will continue to do so .
I gave up reloading because I lacked the patience for load development and traveling 320 kms round trip got boring when the results where not as expected.
(the ranges close to me where closed down ..Barrnett Hwy )
For the amount of center fire Factory Federal is good enough for me...well except for the three boxes of factory Hornady with Barnes Bullets in .270 WSM that is.

There will always be exceptions but Federal has been around a long time and they get results.
And to scoop a quote ''Nice rifle - $1000 ...Quality scope - $600...Season's worth of expenses to hunt - $500 (but probably more)
An extra buck-fifty for a good quality bullet when the moment of truth arrives - Priceless!''

Tight Groups and Cut Tags ,
Rob
 
I bought 2 boxes on Winchester 300 wm ammo and the bullets can be pushed in easily and pulled back the length of the cannulure. No tension on the bullets at all. I just wanted the brass basically so I'm not to concerned. It'll be hand loads from now on
 
one box of ammo and another box of ammo (same brand and same lot #) should NEVER be expected to shoot the same

every time a new box is opened I resight for that box

I used to reload to save cash , now it's also this !
For The price that is charged I think people deserve better QC from the ammo manufacturing company's at least the ones that claim premium ammo
 
I'll sometimes grab a box of factory ammo to do a sight in & plink a bit with for a rifle just bought if I don't have a set of dies fer it, but I always reload my own and buy good brass in bulk once I get the dies.
 
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