Factory Crimp Die 9mm-necessary???

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Ontariooutdoorsman

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I have read in multiple manuals and articles that you should use a separate crimp die other than then one on the seating die for crimping 9mm. Is this necessary? I seem to be getting a good crimp using the seating die. I am using a Hornady AP L&L and set it up with a powder cop die while using Tightgroup although seeing as I can look down into every shell after powder measure I may not need the powder cop die. This would open station for factory crimp die or I could add Powder through expander to open a station.

Is this really necessary....what do all of you do??
 
I'm basing my reply on the assumption you're talking about the Lee FCD. It's not a necessity.
Lots of love and hate for this die. Personally I like it. Easy to control and I like that it post sizes the round.
For my set up it decreased the number of rounds that were marginal in my case gauge.

I load plated bullets only. Lead projectiles can be negatively effected because of the post sizing.

I would use the powder thru expander and the FCD. YMMV

If you're getting the results you're after that's really what matters.
 
I used to get 4-5 rejects per thousand rounds when case gauging ammo from my 1050. I installed a 9mm Lee FCD and had 2 rejects after a 5000 round run on it over the xmas holdays. With that said, I ran 4000 rounds of 9mm through my 650 with just the Dillon dies and had 1 reject from just over 4000. Not sure why, I have adjusted the Dillon crimp on the 1050 several times and still had too many rejects. I give a thumbs up to the Lee FCD.
 
Yes.. I switched bullets from Campros to xmetal, and I out of 1000rds only had 1 issue. But when I switched to xmetal, I had 6 in 1 night. 60% wouldnt feed in my Alfa. I finally got a Lee FCD and 99% fitted in my Alfa.
 
The vast majority of reloaders do not trim pistol brass and the Lee factory crimp carbide die is a "cheat" for people who do not trim their cases to the same length.

The Lee FCD has a carbide ring in its base that will size a over crimped bulged case.

If you do not trim your cases you will have short, medium and long cases, and a taper crimp on a long case will cause the case to bulge below the crimp.

And the carbide ring will size the case below the crimp if bulged and insure it will chamber.

Is the Lee factory crimp die really necessary..........yes if you do not trim your cases. Meaning you can not have uniform crimps if you do not trim your cases to the same length. And the Lee FCD makes sure the cases are the same diameter below the crimp. The bad part is if you load oversized cast bullets the Lee FCD will "squeze" the case and make the cast bullet smaller in diameter. Meaning the Lee FCD works best with jacketed or plated bullets in the standard diameter for that caliber and not with cast bullets .001 larger in diameter.
 
I use Hornady Custom Grade dies and don't crimp with the seater. I use a separate Hornady taper crimp die in the last station of my 550....
9mm and same for 45 ACP. For 38 Spl I bought an old used RCBS roll crimp die in a LGS bin for 10 bucks.

Just me but I like to crimp separately from seating. If your single seat/crimp is working for you then why change?
 
I used to use it but have now adjusted my dies so the expander just barely flares the case enough for the base of the bullet to fit. Then the bullet seating die to seat and shrink the little bit of flare. I still run through the crimping die but have it backed off far enough that it touches the bullet but doesn't crimp at all.

I've only run a few hundred rounds using the new setting and so far it appears that my groups have tightened up but that might be confirmation bias. I loaded another 700 rds over the break and will see how much (if any) improvement there is in conjunction with a minor sight windage adjustment on the SR9.
 
I use the Lee FCD. Probably around 5,000 rounds of 9mm, .45ACP and .357 mag and I've never had a round that wouldn't chamber.
 
I think the OP is asking about the need to use a separate seating, and crimp die. Sounds like he's using a combination die that does both.

If you have the combination one setup the way you like, just stick with it.

The advantage as he identified is that it frees up one station so you can use it for something else. The challenge with these combination dies is getting them set to the COL and crimp you want. If the crimp is set to early, bad things happen to the case or bullet as the bullet continues to get pushed in to the COL you wanted.
 
I shoot 9mm out of two firearms - a JR Carbine and a 1911. The JR will shoot anything I feed it, but I'd get jamming in the 1911 about 2% - 4% of the time with reloads. At first with virtually no crimp, but I found some of the bullets getting pushed back into the brass when they fed from the mag. Then I tried setting up to crimp with the seating die, just a touch/light crimp to keep the bullet from insetting, the bullets wouldn't get pushed back into the brass but I started to get jamming on feed with the slight bulge in the cases.

Solved with the Lee FCD, it does a really nice (and very light) crimp without the case bulge from the seating die, and I haven't had a single fail to feed/fail to eject since, in many 1,000's of rounds, on either the JR or the 1911.

O.N.G.
 
I like my FC dies, I struggled to get a good seat and crimp when I started loading this fall with my RCBS dies, someone recommended the FC die and it's worked well for me ever since. Necessary? I'd say no. Beneficial? Definitely. YMMV
 
bigedp51 said:
The vast majority of reloaders do not trim pistol brass and the Lee factory crimp carbide die is a "cheat" for people who do not trim their cases to the same length.

The Lee FCD has a carbide ring in its base that will size a over crimped bulged case.

If you do not trim your cases you will have short, medium and long cases, and a taper crimp on a long case will cause the case to bulge below the crimp.

And the carbide ring will size the case below the crimp if bulged and insure it will chamber.

Is the Lee factory crimp die really necessary..........yes if you do not trim your cases. Meaning you can not have uniform crimps if you do not trim your cases to the same length. And the Lee FCD makes sure the cases are the same diameter below the crimp. The bad part is if you load oversized cast bullets the Lee FCD will "squeze" the case and make the cast bullet smaller in diameter. Meaning the Lee FCD works best with jacketed or plated bullets in the standard diameter for that caliber and not with cast bullets .001 larger in diameter.
Click to expand...

100% what he said ↑↑↑↑
 
bigedp51 said:
The vast majority of reloaders do not trim pistol brass and the Lee factory crimp carbide die is a "cheat" for people who do not trim their cases to the same length.

The Lee FCD has a carbide ring in its base that will size a over crimped bulged case.

If you do not trim your cases you will have short, medium and long cases, and a taper crimp on a long case will cause the case to bulge below the crimp.

And the carbide ring will size the case below the crimp if bulged and insure it will chamber.

Is the Lee factory crimp die really necessary..........yes if you do not trim your cases. Meaning you can not have uniform crimps if you do not trim your cases to the same length. And the Lee FCD makes sure the cases are the same diameter below the crimp. The bad part is if you load oversized cast bullets the Lee FCD will "squeze" the case and make the cast bullet smaller in diameter. Meaning the Lee FCD works best with jacketed or plated bullets in the standard diameter for that caliber and not with cast bullets .001 larger in diameter.
Click to expand...

^^Pretty much what he said.

If your way works for you though, keep it. I like to use the Lee FCD, but there's no way I would ever trim my 9mm, I would quit reloading if I had to trim those 10 bazilion small cases just to save 80$/1000.
 
I did not used to use the Lee FCD. I laod only range pick up brass.

All of a sudden I started to get rounds that would not chamber properly. Turned out to be some new Eastern country brass that was thicker and caused some bulging.

I added a Lee FCD to do the crimping (backing off the seater die a turn) and the sizer ring on the FCD guaranteed all the ammo would chamber. I was so impressed I added a FCD to my toolheads for other pistol calibers.
 
I use a Lyman type "M" die on all my pistol cases and some rifle cases to ease seating and not over work the case mouth.

This insures that the bullet starts straight in the case and does not tilt during seating.

The patent expired on the Lyman type "M" die and some die makers now have type "M" expanders. Below is a Redding image and the center expander die is the newer type "M" expander.

8zl3HZo.jpg


Below a .223 Lyman type "M" expander and bumping the case mouth on to the .226 diameter section aids straight inline seating of the bullet. And many reloader with progressive presses use the .223 type "M" expander, but no matter what type press this expander can reduce neck runout.

ohIUcpd.png


The type "M" expander die is not "necessary" with pistol and rifle cases "BUT" it sure does help make concentric ammunition.

And a Lee undersized sizing die helps with thin cases and proper bullet grip. This die sizes the case .001 to .002 smaller in diameter and when expanded it springs back a little more for a tighter grip on the bullet. And this helps with thinner cases like Winchester and also insures a tight grip on mixed range pickup brass.
 
They are cheap insurance to ensure chambering and uniform flare removal/crimp.
I use them on all my pistol loads and rifle loads that see crimping .223, .308 & .30-06
 
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