As it is getting more and more difficult to get Federal Primers I noted that the CCI magnum primers are just a little bit "cooler" than the Fed 215. Can a guy substitute without going throught the steps of working up the load seeing as they are so close? I know one should, but for expediency can it be done?
Fed 215 to CCI 250
- Thread starter hermie
- Start date
rnbra-shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- New Brunswick
My understanding is that the F215 primers are the hottest ones out there. So in going to a "cooler" primer, it would be safe to directly substitute them. (If you wanted optimum performance (e.g. max safe velocity for a hunting load), you might need to work it up a little bit from there).
In my limited experience in .308, different primers made less of a difference in velocity than I expected. I once fired a known good .308 target load with Russian primers (KVB-7?), with F210M, and with GM215M. The difference in velocity from the hottest to the coolest was something like 30fps...?
Edit: hmmm, martinbns' info below is news to me; if it is true (and I have respect for "Handloader" magazine), perhaps you might want to drop your charge weight by 1% when you switch from F215->CCI-magnum, just-in-case.... (the link that stubblejumper posted indicates that f215's are the hottest; so perhaps I am right, or perhaps it is just repeating the same myth I might be...)
In my limited experience in .308, different primers made less of a difference in velocity than I expected. I once fired a known good .308 target load with Russian primers (KVB-7?), with F210M, and with GM215M. The difference in velocity from the hottest to the coolest was something like 30fps...?
Edit: hmmm, martinbns' info below is news to me; if it is true (and I have respect for "Handloader" magazine), perhaps you might want to drop your charge weight by 1% when you switch from F215->CCI-magnum, just-in-case.... (the link that stubblejumper posted indicates that f215's are the hottest; so perhaps I am right, or perhaps it is just repeating the same myth I might be...)
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The federal 215 is actually the mildest magnum primer now. There were tests done in handloader a couple of years ago to confirm/quash the various myths. That test found the winchester magnum primer to be the hottest.
Rework your load, I've had loads that were super accurate not be with a different primer and vice versa. It's like trying a different powder.
Rework your load, I've had loads that were super accurate not be with a different primer and vice versa. It's like trying a different powder.
Here is a relative ranking of commonly available primers by flame heat, from highest to lowest:
1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12
2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69
3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66
4 Winchester WLRM 5.45
5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09
6 Winchester WLR 4.8
7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75
8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64
9 Federal 210 LR 4.62
10 CCI BR2 4.37
11 CCI 200 LR 4.28
12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27
1 Fed Match GM215M 6.12
2 Federal 215 LRM 5.69
3 CCI 250 LRM 5.66
4 Winchester WLRM 5.45
5 Remington 9 1/2 LRM 5.09
6 Winchester WLR 4.8
7 Remington 9 1/2 LR 4.75
8 Fed Match GM210M 4.64
9 Federal 210 LR 4.62
10 CCI BR2 4.37
11 CCI 200 LR 4.28
12 KVB 7 LR Russian 4.27
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
Don't cut corners where reloading is concerned,when changing ANY component the loads will have to be worked up again. Start at the suggested minimum and work up to safe levels in your rifle.Changing just the primer can have a good effect,or possibly a bad one. Not worth the risk ......
In my limited experience in .308, different primers made less of a difference in velocity than I expected. I once fired a known good .308 target load with Russian primers (KVB-7?), with F210M, and with GM215M. The difference in velocity from the hottest to the coolest was something like 30fps...?
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rnbra-shooter, This is your quote and it is exactly like I would have expected.
In some 45 years of reloading I have never changed loads because of the primer I used.
At the time I started loading, none of the loading books, or loading charts, distinguished what primer to use. The loading charts just showed powder, starting and full load, and bullet weight.
About 25 years ago a reloading book gave the results of very extensive primer testing in a lab.
The bottom line was the strength of the firing pin hitting the primer had more to do with the power of the primer, than did the type of primer.
In other words, a magnum primer with a weak firing pin strength, gave less primer power than a standard primer with a hard hitting firing pin!
This is what I always think of when I read of people saying you "need" a magnum primer in cold weather. I grew up in a severly cold country where the homsteaders shot elk and moose all winter to live on. In the fall they always thoroughly cleaned the actions of their rifles with kerosene, then didn't oil them until spring. With this method the rifles never failed to fire the good old CIL Dominion ammunition, in temeratures as low as 50 degrees below zero, fahrenheit.
Without cleaning the actions, the firing pin may not even move. Or, I have heard of a very weak plunk, as the bullet did little more than get out the barrel. In this case a moose lived on, while a family went hungry.
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rnbra-shooter, This is your quote and it is exactly like I would have expected.
In some 45 years of reloading I have never changed loads because of the primer I used.
At the time I started loading, none of the loading books, or loading charts, distinguished what primer to use. The loading charts just showed powder, starting and full load, and bullet weight.
About 25 years ago a reloading book gave the results of very extensive primer testing in a lab.
The bottom line was the strength of the firing pin hitting the primer had more to do with the power of the primer, than did the type of primer.
In other words, a magnum primer with a weak firing pin strength, gave less primer power than a standard primer with a hard hitting firing pin!
This is what I always think of when I read of people saying you "need" a magnum primer in cold weather. I grew up in a severly cold country where the homsteaders shot elk and moose all winter to live on. In the fall they always thoroughly cleaned the actions of their rifles with kerosene, then didn't oil them until spring. With this method the rifles never failed to fire the good old CIL Dominion ammunition, in temeratures as low as 50 degrees below zero, fahrenheit.
Without cleaning the actions, the firing pin may not even move. Or, I have heard of a very weak plunk, as the bullet did little more than get out the barrel. In this case a moose lived on, while a family went hungry.
Sorry for the delay.
I found the info on the web.Dont forget this is only a home made test.
http://castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm
