federal top gun #7.5.... NOT!

C

cartwheel

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Just cut open a top gun #7.5 target shell for S&G's... interesting 2 piece wad/shot cup, flat dark grey flake powder and shot. Looked at the shot- it is an assorted size! I'm not going to count the pellets- but I would estimate that 5% are >0.1" (larger than 7.5 and smaller than 6), 20% are .095" (about a 7.5), 50% are around .90 to .85 (around an 8.5) and the rest are .080 (#9) or smaller as measured with my crappy calipers (but good enough for this). If I had a fancy shot sorting sieve I could tell you exactly...

Also- about 5% of the shot is quite squished.

So- it would seem my top gun 7.5 load is actually closer to an 8.5! Who knew.... I guess that's what you get these days in a cheapo target round. Haven't cut open any other shells yet- but will when I get around to it. They still break clays though- and actually patterned ok for me.

Anyone else have an experience like this?
 
Shot shape and exact size isn't as important as we all think. Many a turr/murr in Nl has been shot with roughly formed lead shot. This shot can be anything from flat washer shapes to tear drop to proper balls still patterns decent (I know I have tried it cause i didn't believe it ether ). Now of course I'm sure some of it would be better if it were more proper formed like less flyers on a pattern but still very sufficient to do job on a bird or clay.
 
I'm not a fan of Federal target loads.
My experience is that they won't cycle my semi (Remington 11-96) 50% of the time.
Switched over to Challenger and no cycling issues at all.
Both 3 dram according to the box...Federals have also noticeable less recoil with their 3 dram.

BTW Challenger is made in Canada :) , another reason to switch.
 
A couple of things here, one lead shot always has some variation in size to it, two Federal Top Gun, along with Estate, are Federal's cheap promo loads. If you quality and consistency, you need step up to the Federal Gold Medal line. Remington's Gun Club is about the best quality one can get in a promo load and again it doesn't have the same quality of components as the STS/Nitro 27 line. Challenger makes a decent promo load, as mentioned they are assembled in Quebec with powder & shot made in Canada, the remainder of components are from Cheddite in France.
 
Maritime Storm said:
A couple of things here, one lead shot always has some variation in size to it, two Federal Top Gun, along with Estate, are Federal's cheap promo loads. If you quality and consistency, you need step up to the Federal Gold Medal line. Remington's Gun Club is about the best quality one can get in a promo load and again it doesn't have the same quality of components as the STS/Nitro 27 line. Challenger makes a decent promo load, as mentioned they are assembled in Quebec with powder & shot made in Canada, the remainder of components are from Cheddite in France.
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Hey, I'm not advocating they are crap or that I need consistency... I'm still shooting them. Cheddite primers pierce in my o/u, so I only use challengers in the pump gun which rarely comes out. I expected some variation in size, but not that much and I expected most of the shot to be the right size... Anyway, shoot what you got! I'll still pick up a flat of top guns if that's what's available. Just wondering if this observation has been made before... Will cut up some other shells (I have estates, win super targets and challengers kicking around I think) and compare... Again, just messing around and just a single sample size!
 
Maritime Storm said:
A couple of things here, one lead shot always has some variation in size to it, two Federal Top Gun, along with Estate, are Federal's cheap promo loads. If you quality and consistency, you need step up to the Federal Gold Medal line. Remington's Gun Club is about the best quality one can get in a promo load and again it doesn't have the same quality of components as the STS/Nitro 27 line. Challenger makes a decent promo load, as mentioned they are assembled in Quebec with powder & shot made in Canada, the remainder of components are from Cheddite in France.
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I agree and put the Top Gun ahead of the Winchester Super Target but behind the Remington Gun Club. Next comes Challenger and Kent and then into the premium lines of the major manufacturers.

I don't shoot Top Gun or Winchester Super Target. I've sectioned the rounds, the shot is crap and the quality control is poor.
 
I've never checked anything like this or honestly never even thought to. Never had problems breaking clays with these but I found they're really dirty. I shoot 100 rounds a week of trap and always run a boresnake afterwards and every two or three times I take her apart for a thorough cleaning. Twice through my flat I found a huge buildup of plastic (I'm guessing wad) stuck onto my choke, so bad that solvent wouldn't touch it and I had to use a pocket knife to scrape it out. I've used all types of brands and put over 3500 rounds down the tube and never had this problem with any other brand, only problem I've had is Winchester shells don't like to grab to eject. They all bust targets but my preference goes to Remington
 
Kenny said:
this is a surprise to me. I always liked top guns My best season shooting sporting clay was with top guns.
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Then they are the best ammo for you. The differences among them are quite small and no two guns pattern the same way. If you believe your shells are the best then they are.
 
I had some top guns (20 flats). Out of those, I had about 15 FTF's. Must have been a bad batch! Since then I've tried Mirage and Challenger. I liked the Mirage, but lousy packaging. I also like Challenger, and they are the least expensive here right now, (less than top guns) so that's what I'm using. A couple of the guys I shoot with can't use 'em though, because of the primers. I've never had a FTF through 40ish flats. Never thought to cut one up...maybe I will, now...C.
 
A number of us in our club get together and purchase several pallets of ammo per year. Usually we just buy on availability and price. With Federal Top Gun we experienced a FTF about once per case; ie 250 rounds which is similar to sketterc. Our experience with Winchester Super Target is about 1 FTF per 1000 rounds. With Challenger we are at about 1 FTF in 100,000 rounds. Seems the recoil is a bit sharper with Challenger than Super Target. I find a lot of people are using Challenger and have not heard any complaints about the primers. Top Gun shells are also quite dirty as someone else pointed out.

Only shot about 3 cases of Clever Mirage. Very mild recoil but never seemed to have consistent breaks with Mirage;- expect that was the shooter. Also found the Mirage packaging very flimsy, boxes break apart readily.
 
salter said:
With Challenger we are at about 1 FTF in 100,000 rounds. Seems the recoil is a bit sharper with Challenger than Super Target. I find a lot of people are using Challenger and have not heard any complaints about the primers.
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Challenger recoils more because of higher velocities. Having chronyed them they are running about 100 fps hotter than the rest. I haven't had any problems with primers but what I have noticed with Challenger is occasional bloopers in the cold. I don't know whether it's the powder or the wad not sealing properly. If I'm going to be outside for any length of time in temps below -10C I'll choose another brand.
 
Claybuster said:
Challenger recoils more because of higher velocities. Having chronyed them they are running about 100 fps hotter than the rest. I haven't had any problems with primers but what I have noticed with Challenger is occasional bloopers in the cold. I don't know whether it's the powder or the wad not sealing properly. If I'm going to be outside for any length of time in temps below -10C I'll choose another brand.
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Probably because the powder is from Florida , doesn't like the cold! :D
 
Have to agree the shot loaded into Top Guns looks pretty rough. They do pattern very well with my shotguns though. Winchester promo stuff is just garbage IMO. I have even seen some come out of the box with primers missing. Still usually go bang. Long gone are the days when ammo companies took pride in their shotgun shells by adding touches such as cannilures, nice head stamps, artistic packaging, etc... I still fondly remember digging into a fresh box of Canucks...
 
Just measured some Hummason shot which I thought was from a bag marked #8. Average size was .0946 which would actually make it #7.5. Max size measured was .102 or #7, min was .074 or #9.5. Standard deviation is .00568 which roughly means that about 67% of the shot is between #7 and #8 which is probably pretty good considering the manufacturing technique. If you are a pessimist, then you could say "OMG, 33% is larger than #7 and smaller than #8". Also lots of deformed shot but again this is to be expected from a manufacturing perspective.
 
I have never had a FTF with Top Guns and that has been in many many flats over the past years. Challengers have been around here lately but I have not bought any. I have seen about 10 duds with well struck primers at our club. Score has also shown up in numbers and have seen a lot of duds with well struck primers.
The individual gun seems to a variable as well.
 
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