FFG instead of FFFG in revolver

Mangosteen

Mangosteen

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Okanagan BC/Alberta/ Peruvian coast.
Hi

My local dealer only has Triple 7 Double FG vs the Triple FG.
Can one use double FG in a cartridge for a black powder revolver.
I understand it’s not ground as fine and my caliber is 0.361 using normally 20 grains of triple FG as the recommendation.

Will it just burn slower with less resulting velocity or is it a big NO NO to even try it.

Also do I put anything between the lead bullet and the powder when loading it ?

Thanks in advance for any advice. I am new to this so any advice is appreciated.
 
Mangosteen: Yes....you can use FFg granulation. it will burn a bit dirtier. Average velocity will be down somewhat. Recoil pulse will feel a bit softer. You will likely need to adjust your volumetric measure a little, to accommodate the bulkier Ffg granulation powder. As Triple 7 doesn't like to be compressed. So some care will need to be taken to ensure the bullet just seats onto the powder charge...as it would with Fffg.**

No need for a spacer of any kind. Simply seat the bullet onto the powder charge.

** Here is my method for calculating Triple 7 powder charge: First, measure your conical bullet from its base, to the crimp groove. Wrap a bit of tape, etc. around the end of a pencil or dowel(Unsharpened pencil). Transfer the bullet measurement onto the tape.
Then, pour your selected powder charge into the case(Start with the 20 grain charge). Insert the pencil/dowel and compare the powder level to the mark(crimp line) on the pencil. Remove or add powder, until the crimp line lines up with the case mouth.
If you have a powder scale, weigh the charge. Then, adjust your volumetric powder measure to approximate the new charge. Throw several charges and compare for consistency. Adjust on the scale, as necessary. Weigh out the rest of the charges on your scale and charge the cases. That's it.
Just remember: Triple 7 should not be compressed to any degree.
If you have a set of Lee scoops....use the scoop that throws the nearest charge, without going over. You can easily figure this out using the pencil method, too.

Hope this helps.

Al
 
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Thanks very much for the advice. I was reading somewhere that black powder must be compressed otherwise it’s risky to use. Perhaps the triple 7 is different. It’s going into a 38-44 from 1894. SW new model 3 Target.
This cartridge is a bit different because the nose of the bullet must be buried even with the mouth of the case. Ira Paine design with S&W.

Yes now I read that triple 7 must not be compressed and must be filled to touch the bullet.
It does not appear to be a true black powder. Is that what they call a substitute black powder ?
 
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Mangosteen said:
Thanks very much for the advice. I was reading somewhere that black powder must be compressed otherwise it’s risky to use. Perhaps the triple 7 is different. It’s going into a 38-44 from 1894. SW new model 3 Target.
This cartridge is a bit different because the nose of the bullet must be buried even with the mouth of the case. Ira Paine design with S&W.

Yes now I read that triple 7 must not be compressed and must be filled to touch the bullet.
It does not appear to be a true black powder. Is that what they call a substitute black powder ?
Click to expand...

Bingo.
 
Mangosteen said:
Just curious on how to clean the bore after shooting with the Triple 7 powder. What’s the best way to clean the whole original 90 percent antique after shooting rounds through it. Do you use Hoppes number nine like regular shooting ?
Click to expand...

I used hot soapy water to clean them and then after I dried them I'd give the the Hoppes #9 wipe down.
 
Mangosteen: I also start using hot, soapy water, like AlbertaJohn. Rinse with clean, hot water. Dry thoroughly(The residual heat from the hot water rinse aids in drying). Then, lubricate.

Yes...Triple7 is a substitute black powder. It does tend to be a bit more energetic though, so extra caution is advised,when loading. Compressing this powder can result in erratic pressure spikes. Reminds me a lot of Trail Boss(smokeless). That powder doesn't react well to compression, either.

Regular black powder does perform best when compressed. In most cases, about 1/16" generally offers good, reliable performance in pistol-caliber cartridges.

Al
 
infidel29: I compress Pyrodex to about the same degree as regular bp(Goex, etc.). Have not observed any pressure related problems, at all.
 
Infidel29: You may already be familiar with this. But, the info may be useful to others:

Only real difference I've noted between Pyrodex and Goex is that, Pyrodex is bulkier(less dense) than real bp. Also a bit harder to ignite. I don't use it all in flintlocks, or "traditional"-style percussion rifles....ie: Hawken-style rifles, and so on. Works just fine though, in "modern" inline muzzle loading rifles, cap and ball revolvers, percussion shotguns and bp cartridges. Both metallic and shotshell.

Pyrodex was developed as a replacement for black powder. Chemical composition: charcoal & sulphur(similar to bp). Plus: Graphite and potassium perchlorate. Performance characteristics, handling and loading procedure will be very similar. Pyrodex though, is not impact sensitive. Unlike black powder.

When working up cartridge loads for Pyrodex, I start with the same procedure I use with bp: Throw volumetric charge. Weigh on scale. Adjust as necessary, for consistency. Knowing that Pyrodex is going to be less dense(about 15%)....I am careful to make sure any weighed charges reflect that difference.

As for Triple 7, APP, etc., these bp substitutes are chemically different from bp. The only thing these subs have in common with either Goex or Pyrodex is that, they may be loaded volumetrically. But, operate at higher pressures than black powder. So...the differences in handling, loading etc., reflect that.

Hope this helps.

Al

ps: Suther is right. `Moose milk`is exactly that.....ballistol mixed with water. I like and use ballistol on a regular basis, for all my bp arms. Great stuff and very versatile. Another product I use a lot is ordinary isopropyl alcohol(rubbing alcohol). I have yet to find a better bore cleaner that removes bp fouling as quickly and efficiently..

By the way: Though I prefer real black powder overall, I will use other bp alternatives, as opportunity or necessity dictates. Sometimes a particular gun or cartridge will show a definite preference for say....Triple 7, over Goex. Better accuracy, etc. In which case, I let overall performance dictate which powder I use.
 
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@Alex McKr: yes sir, I was aware of the difference between BP and pyrodex. I like to think of it as being "fluffier" lol. 1:1 volumetrically charge-wise but definitely a difference by weight charge-wise. That's why I prefer to stick with dispensing charges by volume, less confusing to me.

Triple 7 I haven't played with much, so the differences in compression from that and pyrodex were new to me, although I was aware triple 7 was a bit hotter.

Ps: good tip on the rubbing alcohol. Didn't know that. I usually just use windex.
 
infidel29: I've used windex from time to time, too. Works well as a bore cleaner. Though I prefer alcohol. Personal preference, nothing more. Have used rubbing alcohol pretty much exclusively since the late 1970's. Everything from 50% to 99% concentration. All do the job.
By the way, I like your "fluffier" analogy for Pyrodex. An accurate way to describe the stuff. I mostly stick to straight volume measurement too, particularly with front stuffers. Both rifled and smoothbore. It's only with cartridge loading that I'll get a little fussier.

Al
 
FFG will work fine in a revolver but it will not produce the same performance results as FFFG. If you really want, you can always break the FFG powder down a bit using a ceramic mortar and pestle. I just won a rather large quantity of shockeys gold (also known as cat litter due to clumping issues) bp substitute in FFG. I have shot some of it in my .44 & .36 C&B revolvers with decent results. It's sure not goex but at $5/lb I am more than happy.
 
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