Filler for .45-70?

NorthernCX

NorthernCX

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Reloading some .45-70 405 grain cast bullets, been playing with 40 grains and 43.5 grains of Varget. I've noticed half-burnt powder granules in the barrel and even some in the action. Would throwing some cornmeal or another filler material on top of the powder charge make any sense? Not all that well versed in the black arts of reloading yet...
 
Never even considered it. So i looked online. Lots of comments about it being dirty. Low pressure, so might be good for weak actions like trapdoors. Personally i dont think it's a good choice for 45-70, typically much faster powders are used. I use 3031, and R7.

Apparently the solution is to use 》400gr bullets, which you do, and use a heavy crimp.
 
The short answer is a filler is not recommended. Not enough technical information available to do so.
Your problem is that you are trying to use a powder (Varget) well outside of its pressure range. The Hodgon site shows that with a 400 gr JSP bullet, their minimum load is only generating 18,600 CUP. With your loads of 40 to 43 grains, I am surprised you are even getting ignition all of the time. I would suggest any other powder in their recommended list for the velocity range you want.
Hodgdon Varget .458" 2.540" 50.0 1,655 18,600 CUP 55.0C 1,845 25,000 CUP

I would suggest you decide on the velocity you want, and then find the powder and the load that is recommended to achieve that.
 
Unburned powder is telling uou the burn isn't clean, not enough pressure. Powder is too slow for the cartridge.

All of the 4198 powders are good in 45-70, and other powders in that range.
 
The only time i have heard of using filler is cream of wheat for fireforming cases. Is the case less than half full with that load, in that it would be dangerous for a double charge or flash over.

People also i suppose use filler in 4570 in making forager loads, totally different as your making a makeshift shotgun round.

I would not, and suggest that as a beginner you definitely should not use filler.

The dirty and incomplete burn is due to the powder. Use a different one. Any online source is going to give you 4-6 better choices. Your face is less than a foot away from a pipebomb.
 
I don’t use any fillers so can’t help you with that but I use H4198 powder with 405 grain HB bullets in my trapdoor and it burns clean.
 
Thanks all. Was using that load out of the loading data I had on hand, 40 grains was a starting load and I was working up. Looks like I'm buying more powder lol.
 
^^^^ This is the correct 'first question" that should have a "fill in the box" area for any 45-70 loading info...there are just so many variables to action strengths around that could get some newby into trouble.

getting back to the question asked...there have been a lot of different fillers tried over the long lifespan of the 45-70 for one reason or another but usually to fill the empty case space for a small powder charge...I don't consider 40 gr a small charge in the 45-70 and never use a filler with a charge that size. I will use a case filler for charges 23 gr or smaller on occasion but not always even at that .

Some of the case fillers that have been use over the years are still being used (such as the cornmeal you mention), some, like a punched cardboard or felt over powder wad were used but now are really considered bad practice nowadays (lots of "ringed barrels" attributed to the practice) so don't use that one. The two materials that I think are used the most now are a tuft of Dacron pillow filler or a bit of loosely wadded up thin light styro-foam ( the thin sheets of stuff that modern electronics are shipped in). Both these substances seem to vaporize in the shot blast and I can find no evidence of any residue left from using it.

Another thing I might add is that I have long ago quit worrying about a bit of un-burnt powder from a 45-70. Even rounds loaded with small charges of a fairly fast burning powder will leave residue...that being said I do agree with the others here that the amount of un-burnt powder you mention that you should change to a faster powder than what you are using.
 
Reeferman said:
What gun are you loading for?
Click to expand...
It's the new Marlin 1895 Trapper- stainless, short barreled. I should mention the reason I thought of a filler was that with those loads it seemed as if lying horizontally, the ignition from the primer would tend to pass over top of the powder rather than into it... or I'm overthinking it and just need to use a more appropriate powder....
 
The only filler I Have used is Dacron ...... Like what is in pillows ...... Fluffy .. Not packed

I have used it in a semi 308 with great results and a 223 ar, with cast bullets

Search on the cast bullet site .. they have both cast data and dacron data
 
What you are describing is called flashover. Counterintuitive as it may seem, a small powder charge can have the combustion flash, creating a extremely dangerous high pressure curve, and destroy the rifle/you. A further precaution is to always use a bulky enough powder to fill more than 50% of case volume. Double charges overflow, simply another precaution.
 
Reading Material ... Part

ht tp://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?109280-The-proper-use-of-fillers
I have for many, many years found dacron (polyester fill) to be the best "filler". I use a filler only when appropriate. Many think I always use a filler with every powder....I DO NOT!!!! The use of the filler can cause problems if not used correctly and when appropriate. If the powder is not correct for the bullet/cartridge combination then the filler is not going to make it "right". Many want to use a specific powder for a cartridge because the powder is "cheap" or because "they have a lot of it". There are lots of powders that are not only poor choices to use but that can be dangerous if used in an inappropriate bullet/cartridge combination. Do yourself a favor if you are wanting to use an inappropriate powder (usually "no data" available is an indication the powder might be inappropriate) and get an appropriate powder. You will save yourself a lot of frustration. The use of the dacron filler only makes an appropriate powder perform better. The dacron filler will not make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

I don't use the dacron filler or a wad with the fast to medium burning "fast" pistol /shotgun type powders. I find one of these fast burning powders that is fast enough to ignite and burn efficiently at the velocity I want and avoid using a filler with them.

I almost always use the dacron filler in rifle cases with the slower “fast” burning powders (4227, 4759, 5744, 4198, etc. with lighter medium weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 140 - 165 gr bullets in .30/.31 cals of 30-30 through '06 case capacity), the medium burning powders (RL7, 3031, 4895, etc.) up through the slow burning powders (RL19, AA4350, H4831SC, RL22, 3100, etc.) that give around 80% or less loading density under medium to heavy weight bullets for the cartridge; i.e. 170 - 220+ gr bullets in .30/.31 cals. Those examples are for the .30/.31 cals but the same guidance applies to other calibers. The dacron filler is used only between the powder and base of the bullet.

The “dacron” is polyester fill as commonly found in pillows and toys. It also comes in sheets called “batting”. It can be obtained very reasonably at most any fabric store.
 
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