Finnish capture mosin authentication help

[Jesus.C]

So I did something I hate doing, and bought a gun without being 100% of what it was https://imgur.com/a/3xMbuJt I believe its a finn capture mosin. The guy was asking for 350$ wich is pretty low for a finn capture in today's market, so I figure that finn or not 350$ is the price for an average mosin anyway, so nothing to lose here. This is what the guy told me when I ask him, how he was sure it was a finn capture.

: The font on the bolt carrier is Finn( I own quite a few of them). Number on the bolt carrier knob is a Finn feature. Rear sight base has no transverse pins( normally these pins are a sign of post war soviet refurb in Tula rifles and common feature of late 1941 and onwards Izhevsk guns)


The seller as alot of transaction on CGN and everthing is 100%.

So my question: Is it possible that a finn capture as no SA, D, 40, 41 marking?

 

[05RAV]

So I did something I hate doing, and bought a gun without being 100% of what it was https://imgur.com/a/3xMbuJt I believe its a finn capture mosin. The guy was asking for 350$ wich is pretty low for a finn capture in today's market, so I figure that finn or not 350$ is the price for an average mosin anyway, so nothing to lose here. This is what the guy told me when I ask him, how he was sure it was a finn capture.
: The font on the bolt carrier is Finn( I own quite a few of them). Number on the bolt carrier knob is a Finn feature. Rear sight base has no transverse pins( normally these pins are a sign of post war soviet refurb in Tula rifles and common feature of late 1941 and onwards Izhevsk guns)
The seller as alot of transaction on CGN and everthing is 100%.
So my question: Is it possible that a finn capture as no SA, D, 40, 41 marking?

I have a couple of Finnish capture Mosins (M91) and they do not have the SA stamps. However, they have the typical Finnish stocks with wire sviwels. From your handful of not so good pics it's hard to make any valid conclusions. The stock is definitely not Finnish. Also, no typical Finnish wire sling sviwels. Although that does not preclude that the rifle was not a Finnish capture. The number stamped on the bolt and carrier knob may be Finnish may be not. Did the seller tell you that the Mosin was a Finnish capture? Have you removed the barrelled action from the stock and carefully examined it underneath to find perhaps more markings?

 

[gewehr76]

When you ask authentication questions of something. You need to post detailed pictures of the object you want authenticated. With 3 pics on the shared site, you just have to take sellers word for it.

 

[Snider shooter]

I can’t see any Finnish marks from your pictures. SA in a square box should be on the left side of action ring. SA is not a capture mark. It is the Finnish referb mark. It is possible to have a Mosin captured by the Finnish with no marks but how would you prove it was a Finnish capture.
I have three Mosins with the SA stamp. Two look like Russian Mosins should until you see the stamps. One has wire swivels, I knew what it was before I touched it. With no Finnish marks there is no proof of Finnish ownership.
Regular Mosin for $350 in decent shape, I’d buy it.

 

[BlackPowderBurner]

I can’t see any Finnish marks from your pictures. SA in a square box should be on the left side of action ring. SA is not a capture mark. It is the Finnish referb mark. It is possible to have a Mosin captured by the Finnish with no marks but how would you prove it was a Finnish capture.
I have three Mosins with the SA stamp. Two look like Russian Mosins should until you see the stamps. One has wire swivels, I knew what it was before I touched it. With no Finnish marks there is no proof of Finnish ownership.
Regular Mosin for $350 in decent shape, I’d buy it.

A point of friendly correction, [SA] is a property mark NOT a refurb mark. Rifles and handguns taken into official Suomen Armeija service were marked on receipt as was the case with all Civil Guard weaponry after their absorption into the national army and with foreign weapon contracts as received from Italy and Germany. If a captured weapon passed through a weapons depot for evaluation or repair it received an [SA] property mark regardless of if it was repaired or not. I quite agree with you that not everything received a mark though post war inventories were fairly thorough. Many rifles were taken into immediate service and not marked till the big post war inventories. Like all things, sometimes a few slip through the cracks.

To the OP, your rifle clearly missed any post war Soviet refurb. I personally think it very well could be a Finn, the lack of sight pins, bolt remarking and cleaning rod in the white are indicitive of Finn use as is (in my experience) the indentations in the stock from rear sight sliders being in a pile of loose rifles in a crate. As other posters have said, better pictures equal better information. You certainly won’t do too bad for $350.

 

[Jesus.C]

A point of friendly correction, [SA] is a property mark NOT a refurb mark. Rifles and handguns taken into official Suomen Armeija service were marked on receipt as was the case with all Civil Guard weaponry after their absorption into the national army and with foreign weapon contracts as received from Italy and Germany. If a captured weapon passed through a weapons depot for evaluation or repair it received an [SA] property mark regardless of if it was repaired or not. I quite agree with you that not everything received a mark though post war inventories were fairly thorough. Many rifles were taken into immediate service and not marked till the big post war inventories. Like all things, sometimes a few slip through the cracks.

To the OP, your rifle clearly missed any post war Soviet refurb. I personally think it very well could be a Finn, the lack of sight pins, bolt remarking and cleaning rod in the white are indicitive of Finn use as is (in my experience) the indentations in the stock from rear sight sliders being in a pile of loose rifles in a crate. As other posters have said, better pictures equal better information. You certainly won’t do too bad for $350.

Thank you for the precious information, Ill keep you updated, and post more pictures as soon as I recieve the rifle, wich should be in a couple of weeks.

 

[Jesus.C]

I have a couple of Finnish capture Mosins (M91) and they do not have the SA stamps. However, they have the typical Finnish stocks with wire sviwels. From your handful of not so good pics it's hard to make any valid conclusions. The stock is definitely not Finnish. Also, no typical Finnish wire sling sviwels. Although that does not preclude that the rifle was not a Finnish capture. The number stamped on the bolt and carrier knob may be Finnish may be not. Did the seller tell you that the Mosin was a Finnish capture? Have you removed the barrelled action from the stock and carefully examined it underneath to find perhaps more markings?

The seller did advertise the rifle as finn capture. As for the stock, from my little experience, its does look like finnish. I know the pictures are not great, but from what I can see Its does look finnish. Can you elaborate more on why you think the stock is not finn?

 

[05RAV]

Quote Originally Posted by 05RAV View Post
I have a couple of Finnish capture Mosins (M91) and they do not have the SA stamps. However, they have the typical Finnish stocks with wire sviwels. From your handful of not so good pics it's hard to make any valid conclusions. The stock is definitely not Finnish. Also, no typical Finnish wire sling sviwels. Although that does not preclude that the rifle was not a Finnish capture. The number stamped on the bolt and carrier knob may be Finnish may be not. Did the seller tell you that the Mosin was a Finnish capture? Have you removed the barrelled action from the stock and carefully examined it underneath to find perhaps more markings?

The seller did advertise the rifle as finn capture. As for the stock, from my little experience, its does look like finnish. I know the pictures are not great, but from what I can see Its does look finnish. Can you elaborate more on why you think the stock is not finn?

In general, a typical Finnish stock is a two-pieces arctic birch stock with finger-shaped tip mortices (pre-war or war type) or square-tipped mortices (after war). It typically has a wire swivel system for a sling However, the Finns also re-used a typical Russian stock (M91) or a Soviet stock (M91/30). So, just by looking at the stock it's hard to say if a rifle was or not in the Finnish service. Like correctly explained by BlackPowderBurner, the [SA] (Suomen Armeija-Finnish Army) mark is a Finnish Army property mark, regardless of whether the Mosin rifle was officially purchased from another country or was a war capture. However, according to the "7.62x54r.net" that mark came into use in late 1942 so the Mosins refurbished/produced before 1942 may not have that [SA] mark. The above mentioned bolt knob stampings, a cleaning rod in white etc. strongly point towards your Mosin being at some point in time in the Finnish hands. I still recommend a removal of the barrelled action from the stock and careful inspection of all markings there. I also advise that you read an excellent source of information on various Mosin rifles at this website: 7.62x54r.net.