Finnish Contract Mauser C96?

T

Tanis

CGN Regular
Rating - 100%
64   0   0
Location
North of the imaginary line
I've got an interesting piece that I've been trying to figure out what it is for sure. Obviously a Mauser C96, but it has the Finnish 'SA' mark on it, as well as a four digit serial number.

Based on the features it has, it seems like a later model (small ring hammer not introduced until the well into the 10's of thousands serial number range, 'New Safety' introduced in the 200,000 serial range, etc), but yet it has only a 4 digit serial number. As I understand it, the contract pistols did not follow the standard production line serial numbers, which would lend credence to it being a Finnish contract pistol.... But I'm not sure.

Anyone more knowledgeable in the Mausers than I that may be able to shed some light on this?





IMG_0301.jpg


IMG_0302.jpg


IMG_0303.jpg
 
It is possible, C96s found their ways into just about every army during the early and mid 20th century.

That "SA" property mark is amazing to see on a C96 and your example is in exceptional condition. Would the caliber be 7.63 Mauser ?
 
By the looks of her, she looks like a wartime commercial model. She may have been German owned and given to the Finns prior to the end of WW1.
 
Nabs;
I won't disagree with you on that, as that's what I had initially thought. The only thing that still confuses me is that the serial number is 4###, whereas the wartime commercial pistols were (according to http://www.g6csy.net/c96/database.html) from 270,000 - 430,000 serial number range.


fugawi;
Very interesting information. Thanks much for the link. I don't suppose you know of a source that has, if the records even still exist or were ever recording for that matter, the serial number range of that particular contract?
 
I would email the author of Jaegerplatoon. He might know. Or post on GunBoards or in Jan Stills Luger board. Lots of Finns are on both.

Just to add - I'm not a Luger or C96 collecter but I do collect Finnish rifles so my knowledge about the C96 is practically non existent.
 
The author of Jaegerplatoon states that after the Finnish Civil War many C96s that were bought by the Finnish Army (Suomen Armeija - SA) were transferred to the Finnish Civil Guard (Suojeluskunta - SKY), and that 271 pistols in 7.63 x 25 were still available in the summer of 1940.

Also some Finns went to Germany during WW1 for military training as Finland was part of the Imperial Russian Empire. I'm just speculating here but your C96 could have been brought back by returning Finns. Also Germany sent troops to aid Finnish nationalists during its Civil War so its possible that your C96 got to Finland that way.

At the end of the Continuation War when Finland had to accept the terms of the Soviet Union, the Soviets demanded the disbanding of the Suojeluskunta as they deemed it a Facist organization (same with the Lotta Svard which was the Women's Auxiliary of the Suojeluskunta) and the SKY weapons were transferred to the Suomen Armeija. So your C96 could have been stamped with the SA at that point.
 
C96 serial numbers have been reported to be all over the place, especially the commercial ones, as it is thought they it would boost sales if they added an extra number or two to the serial number.

The c96 website (can't find the link anymore ?) reports this as being true with early pre-war commercial models. This may be the case with yours or it could be a very early wartime commercial model.
 
Does it have any other stamps on it? SKY or even Russian? Is it all matching? I believe the author of Jaegerplatoon states that Finns captured some C96s from the Finnish Red Guards as well as the Russians during the Civil War as the Russian police had some C96s at one point.
 
It is all matching (that I can see, haven't completely disassembled it... don't want to lol).

The only other marks are 'Crown over U' on the bolt and the left side of the slide on the chamber (just below the serial number). On the bottom of the barrel, just in front of where the slide and frame meet is, vertically, 'M' 'H' and 'ß'. Underneath the rear sight is '99', on top of the chamber is 'Waffenfabrik Mauser Oberndorf A/N'
 
The crown over U is a German commercial proof, I have the same thing on my pre-war commercial model. Everything else sounds like worker related markings.
 
In "The Broomhandle Pistol" a Scandinavian contract in its own serial # range 1-23000 is mentioned made in WWI. Some with SA marks are known.
 
THIS is interesting, now.

The Parabellum Pistol (Luger) was ADOPTED as the OFFICIAL pistol by more Amiesthan any other single pistolprior to its introducton. This includes such rarities as the Russian Luger (3 known), Bulgarian and so forth.

The Mauser was never ADOPTED as the Official Pistol by ANY military.... yet it was PURCHASED by more Armies than any other pistol before it.

Mauser was a part of DWM, which was broken up by the Versailles Treaty and the IACC aftewr the Great War. Just as the War was ending, though, a couple of TRAINLOADS of DWM papers, records, drawings and so forth were sent to Holland. Some of the design work showed up in later weapons, but much of the paperwork has just disappeared.

One thing, though: the Mauser could be made quickly and most of them show it. Milling-machine cuts often were done very fast and are rough on the finished gun. This gun illustrates this amply. A great part of the Mauser could be made very fast on shapers and with broaches, lathes and other fast tools. They could get a working gun out ofthe plant with comparatively little hand-fitting and polishing as compared to a Luger. Witness the ugly frame-panel milling on this gun and compare it to, say, a 1916 Luger in near-mint ondition. WORLD of difference! And just about every Mauser I have seen is like that. Mauser made over a million of these things.... an they were experimenting, developing and producing rifles in the same plant at the same time. DWM Berlin was MUCH bigger.

It would be really interesting to see a cost/labour breakdown for the C96 and the P'08 for about the middle of the Great War. That would tell us a lot.

So now we have proof that the Finns ALSO had Mausers. Makes sense: they bought Lugers when they could get 'em, Mausers when they needed more guns than the Luger line could supply.

I do hope I'm batting more than .002 on this.

SUPER nice toy!!!
.
 
I've contacted the author of the Jaegerplatoon website to see if he can shed any further light on the matter.

Thanks all for the information.

If I was to be interested in selling the piece, or more specifically, if I had to state a resale value for insurance purposes, what range would I be looking?
 
fugawi said:
Does it have any other stamps on it? SKY or even Russian? Is it all matching? I believe the author of Jaegerplatoon states that Finns captured some C96s from the Finnish Red Guards as well as the Russians during the Civil War as the Russian police had some C96s at one point.
Click to expand...

The Finns captured all kinds of out of character firearms that could be traced to the revolutionary and pre revolutionary period. Might have been a WWl Russian capture. :D

Grizz
 
The author of the website that fugawi gave a link to responded to my inquiry in regards to if he had any further information regarding the Finnish contracts and other means that they acquired the Mauser pistols;

Hi ###XX

"SA in a box" as shown in the photo is old Finnish Armed Forces property marking introduced in year 1942 and was to be added to all small arms that were in weapons depots after that. So this pistol was in use of Finnish military during World War 2.

I suggest you check this page in my website, if you have not already:
http://www.jaegerplatoon.net/PISTOLS2.htm

Finnish military had no real contracts about these pistols besides few hundred delivered among delivery of 1,000 Mauser 7.63-mm and 9-mm pistols by German military in 1917 - 1918. Large number of these pistols ended up to its use from variety of sources - among them pistols acquired by Finnish individuals before year 1914 or in 1919 - 1939, pistols taken from disarmed Russian troops in 1918, pistols captured from Finnish Red Guards (provided to them by Russian military) in 1918 etc. Hence pretty much all possible variations can be found among those Mauser C96 pistols that were used by Finnish military and I have not seen any specific serial number ranges.

While back I was contacted by Finnish collector who is specialised to Mauser C96 pistols. If you want I could try emailing him, since what he told me he had studied the matter and was trying to gather information about serial numbers of the C 96pistols that had arrived to Finland in 1917 - 1918.

Regards

Jarkko Vihavainen
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom