Firearms classification restricted or non restricted? Very gray area!

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hellsrelentless

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I know i'm probably not the only one wonder this. But with all these new ar style lowers and uppers coming out and with the ability of installing shorter ar barrels how does our old firearms regulations actually work?

Example 1

If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have a spare 16" barrel laying around does it make the gun restricted?

Example 2
If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have bought a spare upper with a 16" barrel installed does it make the gun restricted?


I know the regulation was never made for modular rifles but was just wondering what peoples interpretation of the law was?
 
If you change the barrel to a shorter barrel that will qualify it as a restricted fire arm, due to barrel length,
you have thirty days to contact the registrar in order to notify them. (from the time that you alter it)

Why would you want to make it restricted?
 
Avoid the grey area.

If you buy a NR receiver, use an NR length barrel.

If you buy a restricted length barrel, use a restricted receiver.

Obviously, if you have an upper built with a restricted length barrel, and you have a currently NR lower, and you leave you're house with the 2 together, you'll catch a whole landslide of crap.

Am I explaining that clearly?
 
I was just wondering if you just had them lying around if you would get in ####. I know if you put them together you'd have to register it. Just wonder if you had the parts lying around if they could nail you for having an unregistered restricted firearm?
 
lawn gnome said:
If you change the barrel to a shorter barrel that will qualify it as a restricted fire arm, due to barrel length,
you have thirty days to contact the registrar in order to notify them. (from the time that you alter it)

Why would you want to make it restricted?
Click to expand...

I have also read this on other forums where people were using this loophole. They basically own the nr lower have two uppers one with restricted length and one non restricted. They use the restricted on there own private land and the non-restricted for storage and range use. And they say as long as you change it back to non restricted in 30 days you don't have to register it and don't take it off private land. I'm just wondering if lets say the rcmp came to your house and found the non-restricted rifle together but found a restricted barrel or an upper with a restricted barrel installed if they could charge you?
 
hellsrelentless said:
I was just wondering if you just had them lying around if you would get in ####. I know if you put them together you'd have to register it. Just wonder if you had the parts lying around if they could nail you for having an unregistered restricted firearm?
Click to expand...

"No"

BUT... dont play the game where you have it with an NR upper/barrel, and go to the range, switch it to an R upper/barrel, then switch it back to go home... They can investigate and if they find out that you've been doing that, you may end up with criminal charges. If you do this, and you are knowingly switching these around to avoid registering the firearm (actus reus/mens rhea thing), your guns go bye-bye (along with your PAL, etc)


"I have also read this on other forums" That's worth less than zero, should something happen.

Like lerch said: NR barrel on NR receiver, and R/NR barrel on R receiver.
 
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I was just wondering incase i buy an actual ar 15 upper for extra parts. I rather not cross that line but i was googling it and seen other people were "swapping uppers" and and was curious and i looked up the law and it says it has to be installed on the rifle but was worried if i kept the extra barrel if i could get introuble.
 
I don't think it's really a grey area, 18.5" + NR, less than 18.5" R.
I don't think your actually AR spare is gonna fit on any of the NR versions anyway, so also not an issue.

Personally, if I was going to run a R length barrel I would put it on a real AR anyways.
 
Just a the barrel on it's own it is ok, since the barrel isn't specific to a particular firearm, however once you build a complete Stag 10 upper receiver with it, argument can be made it is a
modification is not intended to be permanent but still exists 30 days after it is made....
Click to expand...
 
hellsrelentless said:
I know i'm probably not the only one wonder this. But with all these new ar style lowers and uppers coming out and with the ability of installing shorter ar barrels how does our old firearms regulations actually work?

Example 1

If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have a spare 16" barrel laying around does it make the gun restricted?

Example 2
If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have bought a spare upper with a 16" barrel installed does it make the gun restricted?


I know the regulation was never made for modular rifles but was just wondering what peoples interpretation of the law was?
Click to expand...

If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have a spare 16" barrel laying around does it make the gun restricted? Not until you install it, but be prepared to answer to awkward questions by LE should things happen that involve them.

If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have bought a spare upper with a 16" barrel installed does it make the gun restricted? YES it does. You have 30 days to register it as a Restricted rifle and it is a PITA to reverse the classification.

If you are looking to make a lawyer richer there are easier ways. Keep in mind that LE does not care. Their job is to jack you up and let the courts sort out whatever mess you may have created. This can be EXTREMELY expensive.

It does not matter what people think in the end it is what the judge decides, be it correct or not. The grey areas of the law are the hardest to represent hence the most expensive to navigate.
In the end it really boils down to Dirty harry's line. Do ya feel lucky?
 
hellsrelentless said:
I was just wondering incase i buy an actual ar 15 upper for extra parts. I rather not cross that line but i was googling it and seen other people were "swapping uppers" and and was curious and i looked up the law and it says it has to be installed on the rifle but was worried if i kept the extra barrel if i could get introuble.
Click to expand...

Again,

*why* would you have a spare (restricted) barrel? As long as the reason makes sense, and are reasonable, you should be ok.

Your intentions were/are not to switch the uppers/barrels to circumvent the law. You don't have the "guilty mind" aspect of the law.

In this case, you intend to have spare parts for one of your rifles, make sense to me. You could have purchased an 'entire' AR15 upper with a 16" barrel because it was cheaper than buying all the parts for your NR rifle individually. You could have kept the 16" since you we contemplating building an actual restricted-length rifle later on, etc.

All the 'gray areas' can be exploited by people, gives them leeway... BUT that also gives any judge the same leeway to interpret the law on the opposite side.
 
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hellsrelentless said:
I have also read this on other forums where people were using this loophole. They basically own the nr lower have two uppers one with restricted length and one non restricted. They use the restricted on there own private land and the non-restricted for storage and range use. And they say as long as you change it back to non restricted in 30 days you don't have to register it and don't take it off private land. I'm just wondering if lets say the rcmp came to your house and found the non-restricted rifle together but found a restricted barrel or an upper with a restricted barrel installed if they could charge you?
Click to expand...

It is not a loophole. What you just described is illegal.

If you install a restricted length upper on a non restricted lower you have 30 days to register it as restricted. You MAY NOT shoot that rifle during those 30 days. The 30 days are to give you time to do the paperwork and do it legally, if you take it to the range you are in possession of an unregistered restricted rifle.
During the 30 days you are ONLY allowed to transport it to a gunsmith or certified firearms verifier, nothing else.

I contacted the CFO firearms lab and that was their reply.

You are also breaking the law if you use a restricted rifle on private land unless that land has been inspected and certified by the provincial CFO as a range for discharge of restricted firearms.

I own my own land and have a private range, because of this I've sold off all but 2 of my AR' and a few pistols, my restricted stuff sits in the safe while my NR toys get to play regularly. It sucks but it isn't worth having your guns confiscated, spending time in the police station, going to court, and getting a lifetime firearms ban.

Don't F it up for everyone, we have enough problems right now.

Remember,
Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law.
If you end up in court for something like this telling the judge you read it on an internet forum and thought it was ok will not get you out of trouble.
They do not have to compensate you for confiscated property.
They can confiscate all of your firearms not just the illegal one, again with no compensation.
Lawyers are very expensive
Losing your job because you now have a criminal conviction related to firearms isn't a good thing when you have lawyer bills.
A firearms conviction will prevent you from traveling to the US for vacations.

No matter how stupid the laws are we have to follow them or we give our community and sport another black eye.
 
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What Cr5 just said.
Your friends are taking chances of being charged and losing their PAL and all their fire arms.

If you want a restricted, it is only good for approved ranges to which you ordinarily must belong anyways.
Then by all means, just get an AR.

If you convert it and register it, getting it back to NR status will be a nightmare.

Matter of fact, changing a normally NR rifle into restricted gets the attention of the CFO,
which often makes them re-check and re-asses if fire arms should be reclassified.
You are not gaining any friends in the community by getting the CFOs attention like this.
 
Betty-Lou said:
I don't think it's really a grey area, 18.5" + NR, less than 18.5" R.
I don't think your actually AR spare is gonna fit on any of the NR versions anyway, so also not an issue.

Personally, if I was going to run a R length barrel I would put it on a real AR anyways.
Click to expand...

Exactly right. The lab tries everyway possible to make the new NR rifles fire with AR uppers and lowers....ducttape, wire.....Red/green anyone. They desperately want to call it a "variant"
 
We don’t have “constructive intent” like the US has with the NFA. You can have restricted length barrels and a Non-Restricted gun sitting around, just don’t assemble them.
 
hellsrelentless said:
I know i'm probably not the only one wonder this. But with all these new ar style lowers and uppers coming out and with the ability of installing shorter ar barrels how does our old firearms regulations actually work?

Example 1

If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have a spare 16" barrel laying around does it make the gun restricted?

Example 2
If i own a complete slr, stag 10, bcl, or atrs sporter with a non restricted barrel length installed but have bought a spare upper with a 16" barrel installed does it make the gun restricted?


I know the regulation was never made for modular rifles but was just wondering what peoples interpretation of the law was?
Click to expand...

These questions sound like fishing for the anti-gun agenda to me. what it does expose is the hypocracy of classing a firearm by barrel length. One day I want to personally Aspire to be Restricted myself but sadly I am non restricted under 16.5 inches lol
 
I was just thinking of maybe buying an already assembled upper and using it for parts and I came across a forum on the other big gun forum where people were switching them out. I was just wondering how they were doing it. Think I will forget about even owning a restricted barrel. I have a restricted license but don't like having my name on an rcmp registration list. So I think I'll just keep everything non restricted.
 
philhut said:
These questions sound like fishing for the anti-gun agenda to me. what it does expose is the hypocracy of classing a firearm by barrel length. One day I want to personally Aspire to be Restricted myself but sadly I am non restricted under 16.5 inches lol
Click to expand...

My rifles all identify as non restricted, does that count? :p


hellsrelentless said:
I was just thinking of maybe buying an already assembled upper and using it for parts and I came across a forum on the other big gun forum where people were switching them out. I was just wondering how they were doing it. Think I will forget about even owning a restricted barrel. I have a restricted license but don't like having my name on an rcmp registration list. So I think I'll just keep everything non restricted.
Click to expand...

The guys on the other forum have misinterpreted the law and are wrong to post on a public forum that it's legal to do what they're doing.

There is nothing wrong with owning a restricted length barrel just don't ever install it in a non restricted receiver set.
The non restricted receiver lower will not fit any AR-15 upper and if you want a restricted length rifle that is like an AR you can buy a complete US built AR-15 for under $1000 so there is absolutely no reason to spend $600 to $1000 building a restricted upper for a MS or SLR.
Also, I know from experience when I converted my first ACR that the lab drags their ass putting the paperwork through so even if you did reclassify it to restricted by the book, when you want to switch it back to NR it will take approximately three months for the paperwork to clear and will cost you an hour labor for the verifier to inspect it and sign the paper each time.

You have a PAL, you're already on their list.
Own restricted firearms, every time you buy one a liberal uncontrollably bursts into tears.
 
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Several people here have made the claim that you have 30 days to report a conversion of an NR firearm to a Restricted firearm. After a careful review of relevant law I cant agree.

The requirement to report modifications of restricted firearms are governed by the regulations for firearms registration certificates. These regs mandate that the registrar must attach those reporting conditions to all restricted firearm registration certificates. Since NR guns are no longer registered or have certificates, they no longer have such conditions. Likewise there is no exemption in law for having a restricted firearm without a certificate.

Back when the LGR was in effect, NR guns carried these reporting conditions. Modifying a firearm did not affect the validity itself, therefore an NR firearm modified such that it is now restricted still leaves the owner with a valid (albeit inaccurate) registration certificate.

There is no loophole. The absence of a good rule does not create confusion. The law is clear.
A) NR firearms modified to be restricted IMMEDIATELY puts the owner in possession of an unregistered restricted firearm.
B) Restricted firearms modified to be Non-Restricted no longer have to report anything, because its no longer restricted,
And non restricted firearms have no requirement to report anything. (Prudence demands that you report it anyways because A) having a firearm registered to you that is no longer restricted may cause you problems, and B the CFO might disagree that your modifications did in fact result in a change of classification.)

This is a problem that was created by the incompetent Conservatives who ended the LGR without being able to think through the implications of only registering some firearms.

Thats just my read. If anyone has been convicted of an offence where a judge has found contradictory to the above assessment Ill stand corrected.
 
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