First 1911 advice on a budget

pete_viking

pete_viking

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Hi all,

I just recently got my first automatic (not counting the Ruger Mk III) and after a few trips to the rental range it came down to a 1911 (STI Spartan 5 in 9mm) and a CZ SP-01 Shadow. I tried a couple of plastic DA's (Glock 17 and Walther p-99), but all my previous pistol experience was the Browning Hi Power from my army days, and the DA triggers just felt wrong.

In the end I chose the CZ and I couldn't be happier, although it was damn close. Now some time has passed and I am thinking of adding a 1911 to the collection, and I'd like some advice for a first 1911 on a budget.

I have been considering a SAM 1911 and an Armco tuned Norinco. I am not purist enough to go .45 because I want the cheap ammo, and am already casting boolits and reloading 9mm for the CZ. Are either of these choices worth it or will I eventually be disappointed with them as inferior 1911's? The other option is to blow my budget a bit, put it on plastic and spring for the STI Spartan 5. It's the model I test drove, really loved it, and Freedom Ventures is selling them for about the same price I payed for the Shadow.

I see a lot of Norcs and SAMs being got rid of on the EE. I rarely see a Spartan being dumped. Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.
 
Armco 1911!
For the price it cant be beat and itll shoot just as good as any high end 1911 and still have $ left over for ammo.
 
I recently picked up a SAM 1911 in 9mm and I couldn't be happier. Gun runs flawlessly, haven't had a single ftf, fte, or even a dud primer with 500 rounds of american eagle and 350 rounds of PMC. And I didn't even have a chance to clean it yet as I bought it on canada day and didn't get my att until last night. Because of the federal I ran through it, its dirty as all hell but still functions perfectly. Tonight she's gonna get a good cleaning before I take her to the range and run another 500 through it, and then cleaned once it gets home. For 500 plus tax I don't think you can do much better, if any. I am new to this so I could be wrong, but I always do a bunch of research before picking something up
 
Spartan for sure. I owned one in 9mm and it was great--accurate, reliable and with the "Armco tune" it had a very nice trigger pull. I only sold it when one of my "holy grail" guns came up on the EE.
 
ALREADY CASTING YOUR OWN BULLETS ! ? ! ? ! ? You ARE seriously infected.... :D

If you're already casting your own then why not jump onto the classic .45acp wagon? Yes you'll need to accumulate a new batch of brass. But over time it doesn't take that long or cost that much. Casting a .45 vs a 9mm only uses a little more of the lead stock. And depending on where you're getting it this may or may not mean anything at all to you other than having to carry it home. From there primers are the same cost and you'll use another penny's worth of powder per charge.

And by shooting the "correct" round from the gun you'll have a whole new shooting experience alongside your CZ shooting instead of another gun that looks a little different but shoots the same.

As for going as cheap as you can? Consider that this gun can be the first of a selected few that makes you smile with pride each time you hold, shoot and clean the gun. I've got no issues with Norcs or the other low cost brands. They CAN shoot very nicely. However they are more of a tool due to their fit and finish. There simply isn't the same pride of ownership as a nicer fitted and finished Remington, Spartan or similar gun which is at the lower end of the medium price scale.

The SAM I can't comment on but I've inspected and shot a Regent and Iver Johnson 1911. And frankly I'd rather spend a little more to get a lot more in terms of fit and finish as seen with the Remington R1 or STI Spartan or something of that level.
 
Armco tuned Spartan and don't look back :)

Considering the price of the ammo that you will shoot out of the gun in its lifetime, $200-300 over budget is pretty much negligible.
 
I've got a SAM Thunderbolt, got it a couple months ago. I've put ~500 rnds through it with no real issues. I love it. There is a review I wrote on the Wolverine Supplies board for the Thunderbolt.

Fit and finish of the gun is great, it was a little tight at first but after 150 rnds it fixed itself.
 
BCRider said:
ALREADY CASTING YOUR OWN BULLETS ! ? ! ? ! ? You ARE seriously infected.... :D
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Yep, he's terminal.

200 grain 45 slugs weigh 60% more than 124 grain 9mm....but 45 is way more satisfying to shoot, that's for sure. Well worth the extra lead material, although to be honest, being cheap and OCD about losing my precious 45 brass, I shoot 10 times more 9mm than 45. Too many guys picking up 45 brass at my range.

Both calibers have their rightful place in any armory, JMHO. I have an equal number of 45 and 9mm pistols, if that's any indication of the importance of these calibers to me.
 
easyrider604 said:
Both calibers have their rightful place in any armory, JMHO. I have an equal number of 45 and 9mm pistols, if that's any indication of the importance of these calibers to me.
Click to expand...

.45 is satisfying

I just picked up my first .45 a few weeks back, I own several 9mm and thought they were great until I played with the .45...

now loading my 9mm's look so small after loading the 1911 mags with .45
 
If you're casting your own bullets, stick with a single stack .45 with a 5" barrel. 1911s generally work best in this configuration and your component costs won't be much more than for 9mm. If you want to save a bit on lead compared with the standard 230 grain RN, the 200 grain RNFPs intended for .45 Colt "cowboy" loads work well in .45 ACP and might feed a little easier than SWCs.

I can vouch for the Armco-tuned Norinco as a good entry-level 1911.
 
Reloading .45 isn't much more than 9mm. Powder amount is similar, primers the same. I dont cast my bullets but 1000 200 grain Berry's copper plated is about $140. I don't shoot as much .45 as 9mm and 9mm brass is abundant to pick up. Another issue with .45 brass at the range - not all brass take same large primer, some Blazer .45 brass uses small primers so you gotta sort and buy primers accordingly.

I have a Shadow and a Steyr in 9 and they are much easier to strip and clean than 1911. But if your gonna have a 1911, it's gotta be .45 and my advice is don't cheap out. Save the money and get what you want. I have tried to go budget but after you become seasoned, you will realize you should have just spent the extra.

But if you really want a 1911 in 9mm, I love the STI Ranger II or III. If Reliable still has one, it's about $1300 new.... damn it, I still want it but it would be sin to get a 1911 in 9mm, LoL.

****if you do get a .45, I can sell you a set of dies for cheap.
 
BCRider said:
There simply isn't the same pride of ownership as a nicer fitted and finished Remington, Spartan or similar gun which is at the lower end of the medium price scale.
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I think that's a very subjective thing. I'm very proud of my Norinco 1911. It's got huge value and I shoot pretty well with it. I could sell a bunch of my toys and buy into a Wilson or something, but personally I'd be embarrassed to own one.

The OP asked if he'd eventually be disappointed with one of the budget 1911s. It depends. His past personal tendencies are probably the best indicator: Does he generally like to take low-end equipment and make it run well? Lots of people do. Or will he not be satisfied knowing that there is "better" equipment that he could afford? Lots of people in this category, too. The nice thing about guns in this part of the market is that you can afford to experiment and see what you like: You're not going to lose much if you flip any of these pistols with a low round count, especially the Norincos.
 
WinnipegP226 said it well
mine has run flawlessly for 4500 round that i have put through it and another 1500 a good friend has shot through it for a total of 6000 with out a problem so far
 
domyalex said:
Armco tuned Spartan and don't look back :)

Considering the price of the ammo that you will shoot out of the gun in its lifetime, $200-300 over budget is pretty much negligible.
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This was my first 1911 and for the money the trigger and accuracy are awesome.

I also purchased a SAM commander for 450$ and it is a fantastic shooter also. The difference between the two is that the commander needed some little fixes to get it close to the spartan for trigger pull. I replaced the recoil spring, main spring, polished the trigger parts, stoned the trigger track, and tunned the sear sping. Now the trigger is much nicer, and I enjoy 'projects' like this so for me it's win win. Both 1911's have been 100% reliable with 200gr lswc, 230gr berrys rn, and several brands of factory 230gr hp.

If you are new to 1911's and don't want to or can't mess with em then I would get the Spartan. You will never regret it.
 
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