First 45-70 recomendations

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czscotia

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Hi everyone,
I am thinking about getting a 45 70 like the Sharps (probably Pedersolie) type rifle to try some target shooting.
Then I saw a Chiappa 1886 that seems very nice and a lower entry price. So I am looking for opinions, do you think the 1886 will hold my interest?
I realise it has no double set trigger ETC. but could it be set up to shoot well?
Do I need to shoot black powder to achieve good results?
Thanks
 
If you are looking to get a .45-70 to shoot black powder out of without spending a big pile of dough then I'd pick up a Pedersoli. I doubt that you'd be able to get the 1886 to shoot as accurately as a decent single shot rifle. I would definitely go with double set triggers.

Chris.
 
If you want accuracy go with a Sharps or rolling block. Perdersoli would be at the top of the list as far as reproductions go. Browning made some rolling blocks not too long ago. They are fine single shots that you can still find available. Double set triggers is a must, particularly for long range accuracy. No you do not need to use black powder to get accuracy. You can achieve it with smokeless powder as well, although purists with frown on the smokeless powder but do not let that bother you. There may be some single shot events that will limit you to the use of BP. Go out and have fun.
 
I have had Pedersolis in the rolling block and Sharps versions and found I preferred the Sharps for a more comfortable stock design, better sight set up (for me) and being heavier. Target shooting will mandate heavy bullets of 500 gr or more so recoil will be an issue with any rifle less than 10 lb. I am thankful my 45-90 weighs every ounce of 13 lb. There are lots of good deals on the E&E forum if you watch a while.
 
Thanks for the replies, there is a pedersolie sharps in town here I think and I am going to look this week.
If I can ask one more question: How difficult are the pop up sights to use/see the target at ranges beyond 100 yds.
I often wondered having tried regular iron sights at 200, I found it trickey to see the target-are they eaisier with the apeture
to see the target.
I see there are period correct scopes available.
Thanks
 
czscotia said:
Thanks for the replies, there is a pedersolie sharps in town here I think and I am going to look this week.
If I can ask one more question: How difficult are the pop up sights to use/see the target at ranges beyond 100 yds.
I often wondered having tried regular iron sights at 200, I found it trickey to see the target-are they eaisier with the apeture
to see the target.
I see there are period correct scopes available.
Thanks
Click to expand...

You can shoot pretty good with the arpetures, you not really trying to see the target, more like bracket the blur centrally inside the front arpeture. Looking through the rear arpeture sharpens up your vision a bit like glasses.

There was another thread on this previosly.
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/foru...Single-Shot-45-70-rifle&p=7261292#post7261292

Personally if your going to shell out the coin for a sharps, I would spend a little extra and get a C sharps or a shiloh. Theres an 1875 C Sharps (not the same as an 1874) for sale at ellwood epps and its already set up with a quality shaver sights (if its not their economy model that is) http://www.ellwoodepps.com/firearms_used_rifles_misc_1.htm

I noticed your thinking of an 1886 as well, this is a bit of a different animal. They are a nice hunting gun, but you wont be able to shoot the various big target bullets through the magazine at least

You dont need to use black powder, but its the best way to enjoy these rifles and a very quick learning curve with the 45-70. You can shoot just as accurately with smokeless but it takes a bit of time to work up a load and bullet combo.
 
the best way is to get to shoot one first ;then decide your budge and you may want to also get a loading setup of sorts .then have fun as factory ammo is going to smart if you do any amount of shooting .Short and mid range is fun also as long range is more involved ,Cheers
 
Apperture sights are really easy to use and you'll have no trouble beyond 100 yards.

I have one of the new Winchester 1886 rifles and it's a well built rifle and fun to shoot. I like it a lot but it won't hold a candle to a good single shot for accuracy.

Chris.
 
I am not quite sure what you mean by "pop up" sights. I think that a peep sight on the tang is necessary for long range shooting and prefer a square topped post in the front. The reason for the post is that I use a 6 oclock hold which allows me to see the whole target (metal silhouette) and if my spotter tells me that I am high or low, I can compensate without having to adjust the rear peep sight and without obscuring the target. The diameter of the rear peep is important because if it is too small, you don't get enough light through it and can't see the target or can't see it well. Overly large and you have a bit of room for error. I normally have 2 or 3 screw in aperatures to give me a bit of flexibility.

I personally prefer the Sharp's action because the lock mechanism is completely isolated from the fouling. The breach block comes right out for cleaning and is easily reassembled afterwards.

I would be reluctant to use black powder in an 86 because the fouling gets into the mechanism and disassembly and reassembly is relatively difficult. If you were going for a lever action repeater that you are shooting black powder in, I would go for a Marlin because they are easy to strip and reassemble. I still would not consider them particularly suitable for long range shooting however (300 - 500 yards)

cheers mooncoon
 
With the Pedersoli, you will have interchangeable inserts for the front sight so you can try aperatures and posts to decide which you like best for various applications. The size of the rear aperature is important for accurate shooting and a Hadley style, adjustable rear aperature sight is very helpful for accurate shooting under different light conditions. Also, if you get into shooting 45-70 much at all you will be reloading your own cartridges for accuracy. Compared to the longer 45's like 45-90, 45-70 brass is inexpensive, easy to obtain and there is lots of loading data available. You can buy your cast bullets in bulk or cast your own. It is a steep learning curve but BPCR shooting is challenging and a lot of fun. Good luck,.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Compared to the longer 45's like 45-90, 45-70 brass is inexpensive, easy to obtain and there is lots of loading data available. You can buy your cast bullets in bulk or cast your own. It is a steep learning curve but BPCR shooting is challenging and a lot of fun. Good luck,.
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they also kick an awful lot less than the longer ones. I had a 45-120 for a while and it was decidedly uncomfortable to shoot. If you are using black powder you will need to cast your own slugs because they need to be soft (5% alloy to 95% lead) and use a lube that is 50/50 animal fat / bees wax rather than the waxy lubes used for smokeless powder

cheers mooncoon
 
mooncoon said:
they also kick an awful lot less than the longer ones. I had a 45-120 for a while and it was decidedly uncomfortable to shoot. If you are using black powder you will need to cast your own slugs because they need to be soft (5% alloy to 95% lead) and use a lube that is 50/50 animal fat / bees wax rather than the waxy lubes used for smokeless powder

cheers mooncoon
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Why must they be soft for black powder? How many shots can be taken before the gun gets fouled, or does it, is this what the lube is for?
 
Stay away from Chiappa, pure junk. Get a Japchester aka new winchester. I got an early Browning 1886 that has an Octagon barrel and no lawyer safety or rebounding hammer. Pedersoli is ok. Shiloh if you can swing it. Another option is try to find an older Browning B78 or 1885 in 45-70. Enjoy.
 
czscotia said:
Why must they be soft for black powder? How many shots can be taken before the gun gets fouled, or does it, is this what the lube is for?
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You don't want a gun that kicks the bejeesus out of you. I have known several people who owned 45-120 rifles and all of them either sold the gun or had the barrel set back so they could shoot 45-70. Shot in the summer with just a thin shirt on, my gun would leave a thin red line around the margins of the butt plate. An outline for each shot that overlapped slightly because the butt varied slightly where it contacted my arm.

Most people have a blow tube hanging around their neck and blow twice down the barrel before each shot (to soften the fouling) If the throat is short fouling does not particularly affect loading but in my 38-56, I deliberately made it with a long throat and most of the slug outside the shell. I have to run a brush through the barrel between shots because the fouling prevents me loading the next shot.

cheers mooncoon
 
"Soft" is a relative term with BPCR bullets: that is too soft and the barrel leads up but too hard and the slug doesn't upset upon ignition/acceleration to properly fill the lands and grooves for the trip down the barrel. We commonly refer to a 5%:95% alloy as 1:20 even though that is not quite true. A 1:20 tin: lead alloy is very commonly used for BPCR slugs and this is soft when compared to copper jackets. The lube helps keep the fouling soft and also helps to minimize leading. A blow tube helps too. As for "how many shots before the barrel fouls": it depends on a lot of factors that can include relative humidity, air temperature, bullet alloy, lube quality and amount, brand of powder, granulation of the powder and bore condition. On a hot dry day it might be only 5 shots but on a damp cool day it could be 20 or more. Under most circumstances I can count on getting 10 good shots before having to wipe the barrel but in a competition I would always wipe after 5, if possible.
I strongly recommend that you try to find someone to take you to a range where you can try a rifle and especially the various sight configurations before you lay down your $$ to dive into this game: I expect you will quickly realize that the quality of the sights is almost as important as the rest of the rifle.
 
Wow, lots of good info in this thread from some of the experienced members here. I too am looking at buying my first black powder 45-70 for long range plinking so I find this thread very informative. One question though. Can someone suggest a retailer in Alberta that stocks these rifles. I know Marstar brings Pedersoli rifles in but their store is almost on the other side of the planet for me! I sure would like to handle one and discuss the different rifles with someone relatively close by. Checked with some of the site sponsors that live close by and none of them sell these rifles.....
 
mooncoon said:
You don't want a gun that kicks the bejeesus out of you. I have known several people who owned 45-120 rifles and all of them either sold the gun or had the barrel set back so they could shoot 45-70. Shot in the summer with just a thin shirt on, my gun would leave a thin red line around the margins of the butt plate. An outline for each shot that overlapped slightly because the butt varied slightly where it contacted my arm.



cheers mooncoon
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lmfao ....... the butt pad on my rifle has dimples on it ....... it used to leave red dimple bruise marks on my shoulder ....... i'm glad i'm not the only guy who has been abused by this round .
 
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