First impression shooting Type 81M Underfolder at 25y

[05RAV]

This morning, I went to my outdoor club (Bridgeport Rod&Gun) to test my new Type 81M Underfolder. It was quite cold (0degC) and windy (wind gusts up to 40km/h). I could only shoot at 25y range since the 100y range is under re-construction till the end of April. After all that insane discussion on the TI website about the straightness/bend of the Type 81M’s barrel, I was a bit scared that, although the barrel on my Underfolder looks very straight, it could have some barely visible bending that might affect accuracy. After shooting 80 Norinco red box and 50 Chinese 61/83 corrosive surplus rounds, I can only say, wow! The Underfolder shoots like a dream! The only thing I had to adjust was the height of a front sight post. I’m very impressed with engineering of the front sight. It is very easily adjustable for both elevation and windage. The former is adjustable in exactly the same way as on an SKS, with a tool which is provided in a small, black, plastic box, together with a rifle. Windage is adjustable by moving the entire front sight block in the dovetail from left-to-right or right-to-left, by releasing a front hex bolt, using a small wrench from the tool box. In my case, windage was sighted perfectly in out-of-the box. A very smart sighting system.
Also, I should mention that the Type 81M (and perhaps any other Type 81) has an adjustable gas tube. For those who do not have the Type 81, there are three positions on a gas tube: 0, 1 and 2. For normal shooting it must be set up at 1. The 0 position is for disassembly and I’m not sure what 2 is for (a grenade launcher???).
Measuring accuracy at 25y with iron sights doesn’t make too much sense but I could easily keep all 5 shots within 1 inch circle regardless of shooting Norinco red box or corrosive surplus. Keeping in mind my very old eyes, a person with a 20/20 vision could keep about 3MOA without a great difficulty at 100y. I paracord wrapped the left arm (see pick) and I could keep a very comfortable cheek weld all the time. For me, I don’t need any professionally made cheek rests which are quite expensive, like the one produced by the Samson Manufacturing (see post #2224 https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ange-reports-and-modifications-thread/page223).
The only modification I made to the rifle, is an installation of a slant compensator that I ordered when I was buying a rifle. It measurably helps in keeping a stable barrel direction.
I have 2x5/30 and 2x5/10 magazines and they worked flawlessly during shooting. One must get used to properly inserting a magazine which needs a bit of practice.
After coming back home I started cleaning the rifle. It is very easy to disassemble, although the gas system is a bit more complicated than that on an SKS. Surprisingly, the cleaning time was much shorter than I usually spent on cleaning my SKS rifle. Perhaps, because the Type 81M is a brand new rifle and does not accumulate so much grime yet.

The rifle with a sling and mags

Paracord wrap

Slant compensator and the front sight

P.S. After some time of unfolding and folding the stock, I came to the conclusion that it'd be much more comfortable if the right steel arm of the stock would also be paracord wrapped. The steel arm was pretty rough and working it back and forth without gloves, was not pleasant at all. So, I did it. It is now much more comfortable to unfold/fold the stock arms without gloves. Additionally, there is no direct contact of a steel arm with the wooden forearm. This way, the soft paracord wrap is now in contact with the forearm rather than a piece of steel that could dent/scratch the forearm (and I already have one dent at that location). In addition, I paracord wrapped the bottom of the steel stock butt to avoid any contact of steel with a wooden forearm. Now, it is really nice to fold/unfold the stock.

 

[CocoMelon]

Can you share how you got the slant comp to sit flush while having the “nipple” sit at the bottom of the barrel(like shown in pic).

Mine is only hand tightening with nipple on the 9 o’clock. If i want it to be at the bottom like yours I need to unscrew it a bit until it hooks in to the notches on the slant comp. but then I am left with a gap when I do that.

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks

 

[05RAV]

Can you share how you got the slant comp to sit flush while having the “nipple” sit at the bottom of the barrel(like shown in pic).
Mine is only hand tightening with nipple on the 9 o’clock. If i want it to be at the bottom like yours I need to unscrew it a bit until it hooks in to the notches on the slant comp. but then I am left with a gap when I do that.
Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks

The top of the collar on the slant compensator has three notches at various angles. That nipple/pin is under spring. You can press it in and then release into any of these three notches where it will be firmly hooked in. You can see one of these notches (a left one) in the above picture. In order to keep the compensator in the position shown in the picture, use the central notch. This is a correct position of the compensator for an effective compensation a muzzle jump. I don't quite understand what the other two angular positions (left and right) of the compensator are used for.
First, I screw the compensator completely in and then unscrew it slightly back to release that pressed pin/nipple directly into the central notch. After that, the compensator is a bit loose but still firmly anchored by the pin sitting in the notch. If you do it diligently, there shouldn't be any gap as in the picture shown above.
As I mentioned in my post, the front sight is very smartly engineered. I'm a mechanical engineer by profession so, I can appreciate it.
The slant compensator helps quite substantially to keep the barrel steady during shooting. The other thing I noticed is that the trigger is a two-stage trigger. The pull weight is 6.5-7lbs, which is rather on a heavier side but two-stages make it a very nice trigger during shooting.

 

[Joel]

Happy to hear the underfolder can actually be comfortable to shoot! Looks cool with the paracord wrap

 

[05RAV]

Happy to hear the underfolder can actually be comfortable to shoot! Looks cool with the paracord wrap

Without an exaggeration, I can say it's comfortable enough for shooting for an hour or so. There is one professional cheek rest, manufactured by the Samson Manufacturing that would be most likely super-comfortable: post #2224 in https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ange-reports-and-modifications-thread/page223. I was considering ordering one but the cost came up to around C$150 (with shipping and tax). That is much too much for me. 100 feet of paracord cost me C$15.99+HST at Amazon.ca. And I still have some paracord left that I can use for other purposes.

 

[Joel]

Without an exaggeration, I can say it's comfortable enough for shooting for an hour or so. There is one professional cheek rest, manufactured by the Samson Manufacturing that would be most likely super-comfortable: post #2224 in https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ange-reports-and-modifications-thread/page223. I was considering ordering one but the cost came up to around C$150 (with shipping and tax). That is much too much for me. 100 feet of paracord cost me C$15.99+HST at Amazon.ca. And I still have some paracord left that I can use for other purposes.

Yikes!

Saw the pictures of it in the post you linked to from the Type 81 megathread there...would def rather just home gamer it like you did. Cheap and it looks cool!

An hour of shooting being comfy is great.

Never shot one but shouldered/handled an underfolder prohib AK before...felt wonky. Can see that helping a lot.

 

[CocoMelon]

Thank you for the detailed explanation.

I understand the spring portion and was able to maneuver that. However I cannot get the slant comp to sit flush with the barrel. If I use one of the notches and the nipple is at 6 o’clock then there is a 1-2mm gap between comp and the barrel.

If I thread the comp all the way flush it is a c hair away from grabbing one of the notched and sits at 8 o’clock or so.

No matter where I start threading the comp I always end up at the same place- flush but not grabbing a notch.

Sidebar I have been reading that the comp is supposed to sit at 8 o’clock because these firearms tend to go high and right on recoil. Not sure the validity to what I read but there is that.

The top of the collar on the slant compensator has three notches at various angles. That nipple/pin is under spring. You can press it in and then release into any of these three notches where it will be firmly hooked in. You can see one of these notches (a left one) in the above picture. In order to keep the compensator in the position shown in the picture, use the central notch. This is a correct position of the compensator for an effective compensation a muzzle jump. I don't quite understand what the other two angular positions (left and right) of the compensator are used for.
First, I screw the compensator completely in and then unscrew it slightly back to release that pressed pin/nipple directly into the central notch. After that, the compensator is a bit loose but still firmly anchored by the pin sitting in the notch. If you do it diligently, there shouldn't be any gap as in the picture shown above.
As I mentioned in my post, the front sight is very smartly engineered. I'm a mechanical engineer by profession so, I can appreciate it.
The slant compensator helps quite substantially to keep the barrel steady during shooting. The other thing I noticed is that the trigger is a two-stage trigger. The pull weight is 6.5-7lbs, which is rather on a heavier side but two-stages make it a very nice trigger during shooting.

 

[RRH.01]

The top of the collar on the slant compensator has three notches at various angles. That nipple/pin is under spring. You can press it in and then release into any of these three notches where it will be firmly hooked in. You can see one of these notches (a left one) in the above picture. In order to keep the compensator in the position shown in the picture, use the central notch. This is a correct position of the compensator for an effective compensation a muzzle jump. I don't quite understand what the other two angular positions (left and right) of the compensator are used for.
First, I screw the compensator completely in and then unscrew it slightly back to release that pressed pin/nipple directly into the central notch. After that, the compensator is a bit loose but still firmly anchored by the pin sitting in the notch. If you do it diligently, there shouldn't be any gap as in the picture shown above.
As I mentioned in my post, the front sight is very smartly engineered. I'm a mechanical engineer by profession so, I can appreciate it.
The slant compensator helps quite substantially to keep the barrel steady during shooting. The other thing I noticed is that the trigger is a two-stage trigger. The pull weight is 6.5-7lbs, which is rather on a heavier side but two-stages make it a very nice trigger during shooting.

The left and right notches are for right and left handed shooters. The gun will recoil up and out, the botches allow it to be setup to counter that for either stance. fMost don’t even have other notches,

 

[Curtton]

Can you share how you got the slant comp to sit flush while having the “nipple” sit at the bottom of the barrel(like shown in pic).

Mine is only hand tightening with nipple on the 9 o’clock. If i want it to be at the bottom like yours I need to unscrew it a bit until it hooks in to the notches on the slant comp. but then I am left with a gap when I do that.

Anyone have any thoughts? Thanks

as long as yours is locked by the plunger (push it in to lock) and about 1mm max away then its good.

 

[05RAV]

Thank you for the detailed explanation.
I understand the spring portion and was able to maneuver that. However I cannot get the slant comp to sit flush with the barrel. If I use one of the notches and the nipple is at 6 o’clock then there is a 1-2mm gap between comp and the barrel.
If I thread the comp all the way flush it is a c hair away from grabbing one of the notched and sits at 8 o’clock or so.
No matter where I start threading the comp I always end up at the same place- flush but not grabbing a notch.
Sidebar I have been reading that the comp is supposed to sit at 8 o’clock because these firearms tend to go high and right on recoil. Not sure the validity to what I read but there is that.

When I screw the comp flush, simultaneously pressing the plunger, then the plunger clicks right away into the left notch (9 o'clock) (looking from the muzzle towards the stock) and the cut out on the comp is directed to the right. Then I slightly back out/unscrew the comp to the left and the plunger jumps into the notch at 12 o'clock (top) and the cut out on the comp is directed upwards. When I still unscrew more to the left (pressing the plunger) the plunger clicks into the notch at 3 o'clock and the cut out on the comp is directed to the left (all the time looking from the muzzle towards the stock). Obviously, if you look from the stock towards the muzzle everything will be opposite.There is always a bit of a gap between the comp collar and the front sight block. For my comp it's about 1.5mm. No problem with this at all.
And now, in view what RRH.01 said, I'm confused. I always thought that the cut out on the comp must face upwards. My reasoning is that when gas hits the small barrier which is milled at the front of the cut out it will press the barrel downward contracting an upward recoil barrel jump. Am I wrong or right? May be, I'm too simplistic?

 

[Joel]

The slant compensator should direct gas freely up and right so that it presses the barrel down and left, its to counteract AKM barrel rise upward and to the right under full auto fire.

Thats why its called a slant compensator.

How it fits on the Type 81 is a whole other ballgame, and timing is why they give you a crush washer with something like an A2 birdcage where the solid part is supposed to point straight down.

 

[JasonGTA]

Without an exaggeration, I can say it's comfortable enough for shooting for an hour or so. There is one professional cheek rest, manufactured by the Samson Manufacturing that would be most likely super-comfortable: post #2224 in https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...ange-reports-and-modifications-thread/page223. I was considering ordering one but the cost came up to around C$150 (with shipping and tax). That is much too much for me. 100 feet of paracord cost me C$15.99+HST at Amazon.ca. And I still have some paracord left that I can use for other purposes.

I agree its pricey (I am the one who bought it), luckily I got it for less than $90 before taxes & shipping. It seems well made, Ill shoot it both ways and give a little review for everyone

 

[05RAV]

Another day at the range today. Since my old 100y range is under a complete re-construction in order to convert it to 100m and adding a new shooting shed, I decided to do some preliminary accuracy (precision) testing of my Type 81M underfolder at a 25y range. It was a nice morning 12-15C and wind 12/25km/h. I was shooting a Chinese corrosive surplus 61/83 and 2019 Norinco red box ammo. 5 strings, 5 shots each, soft bag rest, sitting. The average for a Chinese surplus came up to 1.13+-0.31" and the average for 2019 Norinco red box is 1.10+-0.33". Basically, ammo is not really different at 25y.
In all, I shot 100 rounds, 60 red box and 40 Chinese corrosive. The rifle was shooting like a champ. No problems whatsoever. From the results at 25y I can hypothesize that the Type 81M underfolder is capable of 2.5-3 MOA and perhaps better. During rest shooting the slant compensator was in position indicated in my post #1 (slant cutout up). That's definitely a correct position for rest shooting. The same position of the slant comp I used for off hand shooting and it was perfect. The paracord wrap on the stock is very comfortable for shooting. I can keep a good cheek weld without any problem.
I only noticed that in the beginning of shooting for sighting in the rifle, the front sight started moving slightly in its dovetail. I remember that a day before, I tightened it with a small hex wrench, provided in a small, plastic, black toolbox which came with the rifle. I think that a dab of blue Loctite 242 must be applied to the thread of the hex bolt on the front sight after sighting it in to keep it in place.
Some selected target pics:
Chinese surplus 61/83:
Best result

Worst result

2019 Norinco red box:
Best result

Worst result

 

[05RAV]

Another trip to the range yesterday, April 15/2024. Temperature 11C, wind 15/36km/h. I shot 55 corrosive Chinese surplus 61/83 and 20 non-corrosive 2019 Norinco red box at 25y, from a bench rest (sand bag), sitting. 10 strings, 5 shot each for the surplus and 5/5 for the Norinco. Surplus averaged 0.98+-0.29" and the Norinco averaged 1.10+-0.19". Nearly exactly same results as before. Apparently, the rifle is very reproducible at 25y. Again, no problems of any kind during shooting. I feel that the rifle is more and more comfortable during shooting.

 

[Incendiary]

I'm confused. I always thought that the cut out on the comp must face upwards. My reasoning is that when gas hits the small barrier which is milled at the front of the cut out it will press the barrel downward contracting an upward recoil barrel jump. Am I wrong or right? May be, I'm too simplistic?

The slant comp was designed with full auto fire in mind, and the notches allow for right or left handed shooters to adjust to their needs. For slow firing with semi auto, the vertical position works great for me. The trigger is such trash that I think it would make a larger difference on accuracy for me than the position of the brake.

As a side note, if you have the angled brake, it really throws the sound in the direction of the slant.

 

[05RAV]

The slant comp was designed with full auto fire in mind, and the notches allow for right or left handed shooters to adjust to their needs. For slow firing with semi auto, the vertical position works great for me. The trigger is such trash that I think it would make a larger difference on accuracy for me than the position of the brake.
As a side note, if you have the angled brake, it really throws the sound in the direction of the slant.

Yeah, I've figured it out (see #13). Most shooting I've done from a bench rest, sitting (#13). The upward position of the cutout on the slant comp. is perfect for a bench rest shooting. Even standing, off hand, it was O.K. So I'm not gonna change it.
Regarding trigger, for me, it's not that bad. Most importantly, it's two stage which helps with more accurate shooting. It's a bit gritty, that's for sure. I measured the trigger pull weight at about 6.5-7bs which is passable for me. All in all, in my long shooting life, I've seen many more much worse triggers, let alone, the Mosins or SKS's.
Unfortunately, I have to wait till the beginning of May, when our 100m range will be finished. Then, the final judgment will come.

 

[wasa]

I took my fixed stock T81M to my 100 yards range to sight it in. With corrosive chinese surplus I was getting 6-8" groups from a sandbag at a bench. I find that with the rear sight on 1 my face is uncomfortable on the stock.

My method for sighting it in was to get it on paper at 25, then continually adjusted the front sight until I was getting "groups" on the paper kinda where I was aiming (I used 6" paper plates on a cardboard background as my sight picture and then used a 6 oclock hold).

Now I'm thinking that since my range is only 100 yards I should adjust the rear sight to 3, 4, or even 5 and then readjust the front sight to make "3" (or 4 or 5) my "new" 100 yard sight. That will get my face a bit higher off the stock and maybe make it more comfortable to shoot.

PS anyone else having a very hard time getting the dustcover back on after cleaning? For some reason, my T81M is WAY harder to get back on than my LMG or SR version. I assume manufacturing tolerances, but trying to get the spring rod in the bottom slot and through the hole in the back is like a 10 minute process and requires many swear words.

YMMV.

 

[05RAV]

I took my fixed stock T81M to my 100 yards range to sight it in. With corrosive chinese surplus I was getting 6-8" groups from a sandbag at a bench. I find that with the rear sight on 1 my face is uncomfortable on the stock.
My method for sighting it in was to get it on paper at 25, then continually adjusted the front sight until I was getting "groups" on the paper kinda where I was aiming (I used 6" paper plates on a cardboard background as my sight picture and then used a 6 oclock hold).
Now I'm thinking that since my range is only 100 yards I should adjust the rear sight to 3, 4, or even 5 and then readjust the front sight to make "3" (or 4 or 5) my "new" 100 yard sight. That will get my face a bit higher off the stock and maybe make it more comfortable to shoot.
PS anyone else having a very hard time getting the dustcover back on after cleaning? For some reason, my T81M is WAY harder to get back on than my LMG or SR version. I assume manufacturing tolerances, but trying to get the spring rod in the bottom slot and through the hole in the back is like a 10 minute process and requires many swear words.
YMMV.

I've seen quite a number of people complaining about the geometry of the fixed stock. Some even re-shape the fixed stock: https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/2441159-All-New-Type-81M/page363 (#3626). I have an underfolder so the stock problem is non-existent.
Your idea of re-adjusting sights after sighting in at 25y seems reasonable. Although, personally, I don't like to play too much with the sights after sighting in at 25y, for shooting at 100y, because if I want to shoot at shorter distance again then, again, I'd have to fiddle with the sights. Perhaps you could install some inexpensive cheek raiser on the stock?
Regarding the dustcover, getting it back on my underfolder is easy-peasy. I just slightly press the main spring rod button forward to get it a bit inside the cover, just below the back opening, and then press the cover forward and down to get the lower edge of the cover behind that small lip at the back of the frame. During this procedure the main spring rod button jumps easily into the dust cover back opening. It really doesn't need any substantial force. At the end of this video the guy shows the exact procedure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_eze8W2q2U.

 

[05RAV]

Although reluctantly, I decided to change the pistol grip to an AK-style grip from Delta Dynamics (see pics). The original one was definitely too short for my L size hands. The carbine lost a part of its Chinese character but shooting comfort prevailed. The DD grip has a very short mounting screw/bolt with a socket head for a special screwdriver bit so I had to order a long grip magnetic bit holding screwdriver from Amazon. So far, after installing, the pistol grip is solid like a rock. Much more comfortable for shooting. I was at the range today (25y only) and the Type 81M was working like a sewing machine. 115 corrosive surplus rounds followed by 15 Norinco red box. With a new pistol grip I can change magazines much quicker than with an old one. Much better stability during shooting. For now, I do not plan any more upgrades. Especially, some rails for optics etc. This carbine was designed for shooting with iron sights.

 

[05RAV]

Yesterday, I shot 120 rounds at the range using a Chinese military surplus and Norinco red box, from a rested position at 25 yards. Exactly the same accuracy as before (#13). The carbine was working like a sewing machine. So far, I shot 690 rounds. After coming back home, I noticed two things. First, the black coat (whatever it is) at the barrel started peeling off (see pic). However, underneath it, I see like a regular black bluing. It made me confused. Why did they coat a perfectly fine bluing?

Second, I unscrewed the slant compensator for cleaning and it was full of black crud that was hardened into a layer at the muzzle face. After softening with Ballistol I had to use a knife to peel it off. There is a small gap between the compensator's collar and the muzzle face so, during shooting, dirty gas is penetrating there and deposits the crud. Also, the threads on the muzzle and inside the compensator were full of crud. I never had a slant compensator before so, it was quite revealing to me. So, for those people who have a slant compensator on their Types 81M, please, clean it very thoroughly after each shooting session.