First impressions: IAC 97 Trench Gun

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I'd heard both good and bad about these copies of the Winchester 97 Trench Gun, so I rolled the dice and ordered one ($315 plus tax down here in sunny Arizona). Came in on Monday and I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, but I was impressed by the walnut furniture and the nicely done blue job. Action could use some smoothing but may improve with use. The heat shield and bayonet lug seem well rendered and overall the gun seems well put together.

My understanding is that this is one of the 6th generation guns that feature many improvements and a generally upgraded manufacturing standard. Could be, as I've heard that many early generation guns were riddled with problems. This is marked "Interstate Arms" instead of "Norinco". Don't know if these would essentially be the same thing or not.

All in all, I'm pleased with this shotgun. Just hope it shoots as well as it looks.
 
It has been common practice in the gun trade to contract out portions or even the entire manufacture and assembly of firearms. To this day, we are all aware of numerous instances of certain models from certain brands that are actually made elsewhere.

This would appear to be a classic case. I say this because along with the contracting out practice you get the possibility that the company issuing the contract may specify a level of quality that is higher or lower than that which the manufacturer imposes upon himself. Norinco doesn't put real walnut on their '97 and '97 trench model copies. I've seen enough of them to know that the wood is so low grade that they use a solid stain (read paint:rolleyes: ) to achieve a finish.

Since yours has decent walnut, it can only be that the Interstate Arms order was of a higher standard than that which norinco applies. For your sake, I hope the receiver is more solidly built, too. From your description, it sounds like it may be.

The bottom line is, it ain't no collector. But, for the price, you won't likely go wrong. You should pretty much get what you paid for it anytime you want. What would really bite is if it cost you parts and/or repairs. Did you get a warranty with it? If so, make sure to put plenty of rounds through it to uncover any manufacturing defects and see how fast it loosens up. You can probably get it serviced at any authorized norc repair, but you'd want to check if you're not sure.

Please consider sharing your experience with the members here, as it unfolds. You learn some weird #### from each other's experiences sometimes.

I have one shotgun that just fools with my head. I paid an average price for it. Its in amazing condition (even though I bash bush with it myself and it was at least 20 years old when I got it). It points and shoots so easily and naturally, it practically shoots itself. And, it has had to be repaired more often than all my other guns combined.:eek: ####!! I can't bear to get rid of it, and I kick myself for keeping it. I still take it out every year - and always have a backup back at the truck.;)

SS
 
This was posted over on SASS.com by Coyote Cap who is a gunsmith that helped Norinco/IAC with the design and production of these guns. Some interesting notes:



The serial numbers cannot be an indicator of the generation of each of these shotguns, because to the best of my knowledge, ALL "Trenchguns" carried an 030###X serial number.

The first three numbers of the serial number only tell us what year the frame was milled and then numbered.

The "Trenchguns" were all built in 2003.

How do I know that ? Look at the REAL serial number. Not the MIL-###X serial number on the front (upright) of the frame.

The REAL serial number of each "Trenchgun" is located between the magazine tube and the bottom of the barrel in front of the frame.

(the numbers are real hard to see, but they are there none-the-less.

The proof of each generational change is mostly internal changes and improvements, after 2003 and midyear of 2004. You have to take the gun apart to see the improvements and then you need to know what you are looking for anyway.

All Norinco "Trenchguns" are of the 5th. generation and all IAC "Trenchguns" are of the 6th generation. (even though all of the frames were cast, machined and numbered in 2003).

A lot of the early Norinco "Trenchguns" had problems with the heat shroud and some even stuck out beyond the end of the barrel.

The latest version of the IAC "Trenchgun" has many improvements, and is in fact a very well balanced shotgun (especially if shot from the hip, like in actual warfare).

Interestingly, the new Western 3-Gun shooting Organization, (Board of Directors) has approved the use of the WW-I "Trenchgun" in Western 3-Gun Competition.

The new IAC model 97's can hold (7) rounds of AA (1 up the pipe and 6 up the tube), and when fully stoked, are absolutely lethal.

When I tried firing from the hip myself with the "Trenchgun" fully loaded, it was a hoot, and I got every knockdown first try.

Coyote Cap
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Forget the Norinco name, as the name was only used to get the guns exported from China.

The guns were all made at the Shandong #1 plant in Rizhao, China, and Norinco never had a darn thing to do with them except collect their export royalties.

Interstate Arms took over the whole project after the big shots at Norinco got caught selling Nuke parts to Iran.

At this moment, there is a whole shipment of new IAC M-97 "Trenchguns" in the Billerica, Mass. warehouse.

These are all 6th generation shotguns with all the latest upgrades and safety items.

Coyote Cap


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And something else I saved:

QUOTE
Also, all "Trench Guns" are of the 5th generation and are actually pretty good guns, as the metallurgical tolerances were much more closely watched, and also, these guns had some more internal changes, to include another change to the firing pin, (to make it safer), and upgrade to the ejector, right extractor and an improved and much lighter and thinner mainspring.
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Now we get into the new stuff that I took over to china last year. These improvements are:

1. a new .028 ejector (rockwell tested)

2. a new firing pin with an additional weight reduction cut-out (above the retaining pin) and new rebound spring.

3. a new mag tube spring and follower

4. a new and longer,(more threads) slide end cap and modified forearm wood to fit the new cap.

5. a re-designed carrier, at the "S" cam area on the left side of the carrier.

6. a re-designed bolt, at the point where the change to the carrier would hit the bolt (this has been milled away).

7. a new hammer design at the thumb spur.

8. a new fully adjustable mainspring.

These changes all constitute a 6th generation with serial numbers above 0306500 and these shotguns are of the I.A.C./S.D.-1 Import and they came in 20" (cyl. bore constriction) and 26" (modified constriction) barrel lengths and "standard" grade American Walnut stocks.

Then there are the "Special Edition" (WCSE models) and they have all the upgrades and then some extra "special" items.

Those items are shown clearly on the I.P.B. (Illustrated Parts Brakedown) that comes with each firearm.

I hope this clears up some of the mystery of the generational changes of the model 97's.

Coyote Cap
SASS Life #14184
 
So the question remains - what version are we getting here in Canada? All I have seen could not be spoken so favorably of as the American model described above...

Are we getting the older pre-gen-6 "sh!t guns" dumped on us up here?
 
My dad use to say, "There is not subsitute for knowing what to do!" Get yourself some good reference material and study it carefully before trying to disassembly the Model 97 shotgun. Have it right there, refer to it often and never force anything.
 
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