First Time Reloading - Shotshell

Bluegill

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New reloader here. Just did my first box of shells, thought it went pretty well.

Gun Club hulls, Ched 209 primer, 17.7gr Titegroup, Rem Figure 8 wad, 1 1/8 #8 lead shot.

Got into a rhythm, checked every 3rd or 4th hull so that I knew the powder was dropping correctly.

Crimps are pretty ugly, I worked on adjusting but was struggling with consistency. Seemed like I'd get a couple decent crimps and then one that was totally different. Any advice on how to improve on that?

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What model press are you using?

Have you measured some hull lengths? Inconsistencies / variations in this can make for different crimps (swirl stars for longer hulls and open center for shorter ones).

If it is not hull length variation then it sounds like the press or operator.
How does your press resize?
Does your press handle bottom out so you go down the exact same travel every time? Do you use the same amount of pressure each time?
 
Bluegill: Swirls in the crimp are often caused by a poorly set up final crimp. Generally, too much crimp. The crimped portion is too long. Most of your crimps show either some, or a lot. Not a serious problem...the shells will still go bang. But, the top of the shell at the crimp tends to bulge outward somewhat, which can cause loading problems.

As bertn accurately describes, inconsistent shell length(very common..usually minor. But does add to the problem). Plus, inconsistent technique during the loading process, can contribute. Most problems I've encountered though, revolved around press mis-adjustments.

Luckily, the cure is fairly simple. If you are loading on a MEC or similar press, it means adjusting both the pre-crimp and final crimp.

I could go through a long-winded explanation of how to do it. But fortunately, MEC offers a series of how-to youtube videos on how to set up their presses. Shouldn't be hard to find.

Of the two, I consider the pre-crimp to be the most important of the two adjustments. As this adjustment seems to have the most influence on the final crimp.
How much is enough pre-crimp?

In most cases, if a pencil eraser will just fit into the petal opening (about 1/4"), the pre-crimp is set up about right. This will take a bit of experimentation, as the lock nut holding the pre-crimp adjustment screw in place will need to be loosened/tightened several times. Usually a pretty straightforward process. Adjust only a little at a time.

Adjusting the final crimp is a bit more fiddly. The key here is to adjust the allen screw that controls the adjustment cam in very small increments only. Likewise, the crimp depth adjustment screw. The MEC video explains this process clearly. It may take a handful of tries to get it right....so take your time.

Will take a bit of trial and error. But, when crimps come out flat and tight....you're there.

If you're loading on a Lee Loadall press....the adjustments are pre-set and non adjustable. About the only option here, is to adjust the load column's height slightly. For example: Reduce the existing powder charge slightly. Switch to another powder. Reduce the shot charge. Go to a different wad, etc. In some cases, going to a different brand of hull makes a difference.

Here's a tip: When running the shells through the final crimp, do it in several stages. First: run the shell into the crimp die. At the end of the stroke, hold the handle down for a few seconds. This sets the crimp. Lift the handle a little and rotate the shell a quarter turn. Run it down again. Repeat,etc. You should feel less resistance on each stroke. Your finished shells should come out with their crimped ends perfectly formed and smoothly rounded, every time. An aid in smooth loading. Also makes a good, tight crimp.

Yes...this may add a few minutes to the length of time it takes to load a box of shells. But worth it, in the long run.

Learned this trick some years ago. As an active cowboy action competitor, I know that championships are often won or lost on shotgun stages. So...shotshell loading and shucking through my double barrelled guns must be fast, smooth and consistent....every time. Where fractions of a second can make the difference between a Champion buckle and "thanks for showing up"....little tweaks like this can often make a huge difference in performance.

Of course, your needs may not be as stringent. But, there is a great deal of satisfaction in knowing that your final product is as good as.....or even better, than factory.

Hope some of this is useful.

Al

ps: Don't be surprised if you need to make minor crimp adjustments when switching from one brand of hull, to another. Very common. By the way, a pretty good batch of shells, for your first try. Have loaded many that looked like that, too. Shoot them with confidence. Your shells will improve with experience.
 
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Gun Club hulls are well known for significant variations in length. This is the main cause of the variation in your crimps. You can sort by length, as short ones leaves the holes in the crimp and long ones leave swirls, but to get perfect crimps on all means adjusting to each length. What most people do is adjust the loader to close the holes on shorter hulls so shot doesn’t fall out, and accept some swirl on the longer hulls. Your crimps aren’t bad, depth is good, some are open some have swirls, but these are cosmetic more than functional. Those shells will shoot fine, so tweak the crimp adjustments if you feel the need to, but otherwise what you have right now will work just fine.
 
Gun Club hulls are well known for significant variations in length. This is the main cause of the variation in your crimps. You can sort by length, as short ones leaves the holes in the crimp and long ones leave swirls, but to get perfect crimps on all means adjusting to each length. What most people do is adjust the loader to close the holes on shorter hulls so shot doesn’t fall out, and accept some swirl on the longer hulls. Your crimps aren’t bad, depth is good, some are open some have swirls, but these are cosmetic more than functional. Those shells will shoot fine, so tweak the crimp adjustments if you feel the need to, but otherwise what you have right now will work just fine.

And if the swirls do bother you, you could trim all hulls to the shortest length you have in your batch and then adjust the dies to this length.
Ebay has some relatively inexpensive hull trimmers ($45 incl shipping) that you can chuck in your drill press to make the job go easy and fast.
 
I am just getting into shot reloading myself and came across this video.

I may or may not buy it but it was informative for me as to the cause of swirling. Alex’s advice s gold as well.
 
Make sure you use batches of hulls that are all the same cycle of loading ( 2 times, 3 times, 4 times...) If all is equal your crimps should be the same. If you have the right amount of volume in your hull is should crimp flat and even.

When your hulls get a bit of age or more cycles the inside volume increases from expanding and may no longer fill to the top nor gas seal the shot cup. When this begins to happen its time to dump and replace the hulls with newer ones.

Save your data from a few shot you've patterned, and if it changes you need to look back to the drawing board of your recipe. Just because it goes Bang, does not mean its always a good shot. You need to monitor your shots, not just your loading.
 
And if the swirls do bother you, you could trim all hulls to the shortest length you have in your batch and then adjust the dies to this length.
Ebay has some relatively inexpensive hull trimmers ($45 incl shipping) that you can chuck in your drill press to make the job go easy and fast.
Yes, I failed to include that point in my post, but it is an option if he wants to make it easy to keep it all the same.
 
Thanks for the advice all. I'll be sure to work my way through it all and hopefully improve on my next batch of reloads.

Tough time to be getting into this though. Hard to find components.
 
Bluegill: Components like powder and primers seem pretty much unobtainium, right now. But, you should still be able to find wads or shot. Hummason is always a good source.

An interesting video. I agree with the presenter's observations on different brands of hulls. My experience pretty much mirrors his. I used to trim hulls for uniform length. It does allow for very consistent crimps. I recommend doing so, when possible. But for me, it became too much of a chore when dealing in large quantities. I still trim hulls, but generally only when prepping them for roll crimps.

As for hulls, of all the different brands I've loaded, I've found Winchester AA and Federal Gold Medal hulls to be the most consistent for length. Though no brand will ever be perfectly square at the case mouths.

Manufacturing tolerances are very close....but never perfect.

For the past while, I've been loading AA-HS hulls (grey and red), pretty much exclusively, for both hunting and competitive use. They've proven to be very durable, load well and consistent in quality. With excellent crimps. If you can lay your hands on some of these hulls, they might be worth a try.

Remington STS hulls are also good. A close second to AA hulls, in my opinion. I know quite a few shooters who load and like these hulls. I have no preference between 6 or 8-petal crimps, in the Remington hulls. Either are durable, reload easily and hold good crimps.

I am also fond of Federal Gold Medal hulls. Not always as easy to find as some of the others, but always good quality.

Hope this is useful

Al

ps: If your local gun club offers trap shooting, this is an excellent source for hulls. Trap shooters often discard them by the bucket full. Have acquired plenty of good hulls, this way. Be sure to scoop up as many boxes as you can lay your hands on, too. Can never have enough of those!

Note: Check out you tube for how-to videos on making your own hull trimmer. Lots of good and very inexpensive ways to make one.
 
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Alex, I'm within an easy drive of both Hummason and Lawry's, so finding shot and wads has not been an issue. With powder and primer you seem to get what you get, and that's giving me some trouble with finding load data that matches what I can actually get my hands on. The last thing I want to do is start making assumptions about things I have limited knowledge and no experience with Hopefully these loads with Titegroup work out well for me, that seems to be available more readily than most other powders. Hulls have also been trouble, I see them pop up for sale once and a while but every time I've been to slow. Got to put a bit more effort in there.

Can I ask what hull trimmers people are using? Any particular models to avoid?
 
Bluegill: A good online resource: Hodgdon Reloading Data Centre. Has plenty of shotgun load data that will be useful to you. including : Loads using Titegroup.

You may be able to source hulls through Hummason. Been a while since I visited there(pandemic got in the way). But, they had bags of once-fired Remington STS hulls for sale. May be worth your while to call. Otherwise, if you have some contacts with local trap shooters, they may point you toward a source for hulls....preferably free.

As far as hull trimmers go, I am still using the one I purchased years ago from Ballistics Products(if memory serves).

A really good trimmer....though pretty expensive ($70), is made by TATV Canada. An excellent source for shotgun tools and accessories. A good trimmer like that will last your lifetime and beyond. There are all kinds of others on the market. Plus, it is easy to make one for next to nothing. The basic concept remains the same with all of them. Adjustability of trim length is important.

If I can offer one piece of advice: Hold off on a trimmer for the time being. It may not be really necessary, at this stage of your loading experience. Yes....one of them would help, but....Better still, to continue to load and learn. Develop the knowledge of what it takes to turn out reasonably good shells, first.

Your first venture turned out pretty well. The shells you produced are certainly usable. Have loaded plenty that looked like that. They all performed just fine. I believe that all you really need to do for now, is tweak your machine a little. Then see whether that improves your finished product. Once you gain a bit more experience, you'll also have a better grasp on how to fine tune your shells.
Of course, purchase a trimmer if you wish. You may find it just the ticket to success. Having the right tools for the job is an asset. But, knowledge and experience are just as valuable.


Al
 
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I use the Lyman four shotshell reloading manual and follow the load that I have the components for. Budget shooting supply's has wads, shot, primers and powder.
 
I'm with 577-450. If there is any resource that should be on every shotshell reloader's bench, it's the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual. A wealth of loading information on its pages and dozens of loads for most if not all, commercially available hulls. In multiple gauges. Most definitely worth the investment.
 
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