Fixing No.4 Stocking up? (Update)

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1

LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1

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I recently picked up a really nice 1945 Long Branch in a really nice birch or beech stock.

One thing I noticed is the rifle does not have correct barrel tension at the tip of the fore-end. its actually opposite. with very slight tension pressing up on the hand guard. Any way to fix this? I was thinking the wood was probably quite dry as it has probably not seen oil in several decades. it soaked up a light coat I put on the outside quite fast.

I have no reason to believe this was a parts rifle for those wondering, as the seller has a very large collection and is most likely well known in the collectors community. I am quite confident it is an original rifle, not a privately re-stocked one like were are seeing a lot of these days. Everything is correct long branch stamped, with exception of a Savage made rear sling swivel and Magazine. I believe it is somewhat normal for later Long Branches to have some savage parts since Savage shipped up all the spare parts after they stopped production. Also, after taking the hand guards off, it was quite clear the rifle has not been apart for quite some time. Everything was "sealed" with a cake of dust and oil and everything under the wood is coated with grease.

So, any tips to fix the fore-end pressure without actually removing wood to bed the rifle?
 
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Did you measure the the barrel tip pressure? Check to see if the action and barrel knox are making 100% contact. If this is the case I soak the tip in warm raw linseed oil for a couple days...you should get some swell. If not attempt to get the contact and it will change the barrel tip pressure. If this does not work install a thin cork shim at the pressure point. Done this a few times with success. Let us know how this turns out. Sounds like a nice original LB. Ron
 
Sounds like your ways are compressed. Is the king screw spacer still present?? Still, unless the fore end is warped, the ways will likely need to be refaced.
 
Just took it apart,

Barrel re-enforce is contacting the stock. stock does have the king screw bushing/spacer. does not look like the tip had all too much pressure to start.

How would one tell in the ways are compressed?

Apart from the stock issue its a really nice rifle, very little wear on a lot of the parts.
 
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LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
Just took it apart,

Barrel re-enforce is contacting the stock. stock does have the king screw bushing/spacer. does not look like the tip had all too much pressure to start.

How would one tell in the ways are compressed?

Apart from the stock issue its a really nice rifle, very little wear on a lot of the parts.
Click to expand...

Did you shoot it before you disassembled it?

Did the stock show signs of sideways warping?

At the beginning of the use of no4s as sniping rifles "proper" stock pressure was deemed to be important. At the end, armourers only brought guns back to "specification" if they showed negative shooting effects.

The first thing i do is remove the king screw bushing and check if that solves the upward pressure issues.

Then shorten the bushing as necessary.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
Just took it apart,

Barrel re-enforce is contacting the stock. stock does have the king screw bushing/spacer. does not look like the tip had all too much pressure to start.

How would one tell in the ways are compressed?

Apart from the stock issue its a really nice rifle, very little wear on a lot of the parts.
Click to expand...


Lee Enfield is giving you the starting point. BE CAREFUL WHEN you tighten the King Screw. Don't over torque. I use 25 inch pounds as a standard. Some use less and some use more.

Also, one of the huge mistake a lot of people make when they disassemble a Lee Enfield of any Mark is that they PRY down the fore end from the tip. DON'T DO IT. Work it carefully so that it drops off the ways. This improper disassembly causes as much damage to the ways as not replacing the spacer when reassembling the rifle.

Sometimes the ways are a very shiny and look compressed. Not always. Like everything else, the fore ends are built to a plus or minus standard.

The best way to tell if you need to rework the ways is to attach the fore end and snug up the King Screw. Then turn the rifle upside down and hang a six pound weight (something close) and with a thin piece of note paper as a feeler gauge check for clearance at the pressure pad. I use a .0005 inch stainless steel feeler gauge but then I'm anal about this.

Something similar should have been done when the rifle was first assembled.

The six pound upward pressure rule is a "standard" that is supposed to work acceptably for assembly line rifles. Some shoot better with more and some shoot better with less. You will have to experiment.

Look up Peter Laidler's comments on bedding Lee Enfields on Badger Dog's Milsurp Knowledge Library site. It gives all the instruction needed to to properly install new ways. It isn't difficult if you're good with your hands and have a bit of patience to do it right.

I can't count the number of times when I've pulled down a rifle to give it a thorough cleaning and seen the ways had been repaired with glass or some other polymer material. It works very well and is hidden from view but unless the seller says something not very ethical. Still for a shooter grade rifle???????????????
 
Tried what Lee Enfield suggested, removed the bushing, and no change.

There is absolutely no muzzle pressure so I think the ways are crushed.

Honestly I did buy the rifle knowing the stocking up was not perfect, its is in great shape and I needed a 1945. I have not shot it but before I start doing anything ill shoot it and see how it prints. I don't think I would want to do a complete replacement of the draws, looks like it involved quite a bit of fiddling. Its one of those things, do I keep it original or modify it for function. I wonder would thin shims work? Obviously not "proper" but would involve minimal modifications if any.

When I do take my No.4's apart I am always cautious to ut "lever" the fore-end off, something I was told years back when I first started getting in to Lee Enfields.
 
I've had a few No4's over the year with forends which needed some ######. Now, all my No4's are stored with the king screw loosened a few turns.

"Weak" forends can be worked on, sometimes, although it's not the ideal scenario.
 
Could be a number of things. Sometimes fore stocks will get a almost unnoticeable warp downwards. Place your fore stock upside down on a flat surface and look to see if the area that your hand guards fit against is straight. If it does have a downward warp all you can do is ether use cork to build up the bottom of the barrel channel at the tip of the fore stock or inlet a small hardwood block to achieve the correct up pressure. You might have to remove some material from the handguards if they are pressing down on the barrel.

If the fore stock is straight the next step would be to smoke the bottom of your barrel and receiver and see where the soot transfers. I have found that most times the receiver ring (knox form) area needs to be relieved a bit (along with the area that the mag well contacts)to get proper up pressure at the tip of the fore end. If you do have to remove material be careful, with wood you can take away but you cant put it back. You should have contact at the tip of the fore end and at the receiver ring and nowhere else along the barrel channel. If you find that you have to remove material from the receiver ring area then you would have to shorten the king screw collar also.
 
OK,

Put the forend on a flat surface. Does appear to have a slight bow, looks like about 1/16 of an inch rise. So, Looks like the fore-end is warped. I wonder is its dried out? Would a few more coats of oil help in any way? Or is shimming the support really the only way to fix it?

I will shoot it before making any adjustments but figure having plan of action can't hurt. Either way, I bought it to fill a hole in the collection and I do have other No.4's to shoot.
 
Give it a good drink of raw linseed oil, get a wallpaper tray that is long enough and give it a good soak. You will be surprised at how much it will come back.
 
LeeEnfieldNo.4_mk1 said:
OK,

Put the forend on a flat surface. Does appear to have a slight bow, looks like about 1/16 of an inch rise. So, Looks like the fore-end is warped. I wonder is its dried out? Would a few more coats of oil help in any way? Or is shimming the support really the only way to fix it?

I will shoot it before making any adjustments but figure having plan of action can't hurt. Either way, I bought it to fill a hole in the collection and I do have other No.4's to shoot.
Click to expand...

What you describe does sound like shrinking has occurred. The outer wood dries more than the inner wood and causes the type of warping you describe. Is there any twisting???? Most fore ends are made from wood with stable/straight grain but the odd one will twist.

As far as not being able to "put wood back" yes, you can and it is evidenced regularly on milsurps that have gone back to the REMEs for repairs. I've even seen fore end pressure pads replaced as well as ways. Still, I can see where mr .e moose is coming from. Once new wood is added ?????????????? It doesn't seem to matter how well the repair is done, it just isn't as nice as no repair.

If you are going to apply Linseed Oil, don't expect this fix to work overnight. If you use RAW Linseed Oil, I suggest you mix it with acetone or some other thinner in a 10-1 ratio of thinner to RLO. The thinner acts as a carrier so that the RLO will penetrate deeper and dry faster. This process will take several coats with a couple of days drying time in between each coat. I prefer Boiled Linseed Oil but the effects are the same. It just isn't toxic. I also like to heat up the wood being treated and the Linseed Oil mix hot as well. Seems to penetrate a lot better.
 
I would give it a good test at the range before doing anything. I have read material that indicates there was a wartime relaxation in stocking up standards that allowed for barrels to be floating above the wood at the forend tip. This must mean they expected to have adequate battle rifle accuracy. Get a baseline for accuracy established as is and then begin to play with it. If you're not experienced working on Lee Enfield bedding the easiest first approach might be to lightly glue in a wood veneer shim in the outer couple of inches of the barrel channel to establish the normal up-pressure without tackling the "draws" or other permanent alterations. You need to sand the shimmed channel so that the barrel remains a perfect fit and doesn't stick but easily returns to the same position shot after shot. The shim at the forend tip can be easily chiseled out if you don't like the results and wish to try a more complicated repair/ alteration.

milsurpo
 
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