Flintlock Question Regarding Blackpowder and 777

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maple leaf

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So I finally bit the bullet and bought a Lyman Deerstalker flintlock. I have a few questions:

- Can I reliably shoot the rifle using FFFg pure black powder as the main charge and the priming pan? I'm trying to understand if this would be reliable for ignition and shooting. Or is FFg for the main charge and FFFg in the flash pan the "proper" way to shoot a flintlock, if so, what advantages are there with using two different granulations of powder?

- Pure black powder is rare as hens teeth in my neck of the woods. Can someone use a substitute powder such as 777 instead? I know it works well as a main charge, but has anyone used it also for priming their flinter? If so, I'd like to know how it performed compared to pure black powder.

- I am also interested to know any tricks of the trade for keeping the flinter shooting well in cold and wet weather as well.

Any and all help for a new smoke pole shooter is appreciated.
Thanks!
 
As a rule of thumb over .50 cal. should be FFG with FFFG in the pan, in practice FFFG works well as the main charge and in the pan.
Haven't tried 777 with a flinter, it would be a good experiment.
 
Triple 7 is not the stuff you put in your pan for reliable ignition. BP fires up at around 350F, Triple 7, OTOH, fires up at around 777F [hence the name]...Pyrodex RS or even the finer P grade is similarly resistant to spark ignition, and fires up at around 650F.

Even using the subs in the breech with fine grade BP in the pan is no guarantee that you won't just get a whoosh, or more likely, a fzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Keep the subs for percussion guns, if you must. I, too, live a long ways [by UK standards] from a source of the good BP, that's why I have had to resist all those lovely flinters for so long.

tac
 
I have owned a repro 1728 St-Étienne flintlock for the last 10 years and have used it in all seasons and weather conditions. It loves GOEX FFG as the main charge and FFFG in the pan.

I don't have any advice about shooting in the cold (same as shooting in dry conditions for me).

As for shooting in wet/humid conditions, remember that black powder absorbs humidity quickly so delay loading as much as you can. You can load your main charge as it will be fairly well protected in the barrel but only load your pan as late as possible as FFFG will quickly suck up humidity.

Well, that's my 2 cents !!! :)
 
Your priming pan should be fed FFFFg, your charge can be FFG or FFFG or 777 or pellets. FFg is really designed to function best in 69 cal or larger smooth bores and shotguns. Never use FFFFg in your charge. I shoot 12 Gauge, and 50 Cal Caplocks and 50 Cal flintlocks regularly. With a wooden mortar and piston, you can crush FFFg into a priming powder for your pan, do small amounts only and wear gloves and goggles.
 
1) Don't use substitutes in flintlocks. The ignition is slowed down and that makes accuracy hard.
2) Use 2F for 50 Cal and over. Use 3F for 50 Cal and under. 50 Cal is the mid point, so use whichever works best in your gun.
3) Use 4F for the flash pan. It is finer and ignites better.

And I do speak from experience. 20 years of BP fun. I currently have at least 3 flintlocks, 6 percussion, and 1 inline. Then there are the handguns.
 
By the sounds of things OP, substitutes are to be experimented with at the range (where a shot doesn't really matter) and you're on a quest for Goex FFF. When you find it buy as much as wallet will allow and if you're experiencing slow ignition perhaps try grinding some FFF into a finer FFFF type consistency.

You know what "they" say?...Once you go black, you'll never go back! :p
 
yes as others have said real black is best used in a flintlock Ellwood Epps has goex most of the time I buy as much as I can when I can i never go near the fake stuff it way worse the black higher ignition temp and harder to clean
 
Yes you can, I do it all the time. Charge your front stuffer with 5 grains of holy black first. Put in your trip 7 on top of the powder, remember trip 7 is 15% more energetic so cut your main charge back accordingly. You must use holy black in yur pan for more reliable ignition of your main charge without increased lock time. U will occasionally get a hang fire or delayed ignition just like U can with all black powder in your charge but your smoke pole will behave exactly the same with a binary main charge. This is a good straggly to save and stretch your black powder supply. If U are a bit skeptical about the validity of my advise, all I can say is try it U got nothing to loose. U will be delighted with the ability to stretch your powder supply. Put trip 7 in your horn and carry a second smaller horn or a small priming flask loaded with 4F or 3F. I like 4f better for my binary charge and pan charge.
 
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Forget using any of the BP substitues in a flintlock as ignition at the pan and main charge will be inconsistent as mentioned above. The old-timers primed with the same powder used for the main charge but now-days we tend toward FFFFg for the prime and either FFg or FFFg for the main charge. FFFg burns cleaner than FFG and many of us use FFFG in all calibers up to and including 54 cal to minimize barrel fouling. If you want to keep things simple, use FFFg for both priming and the main charge.
 
My experiance with a .45cal Kentukian is that 3f (fffg)BP works as the main and pan
2f(ffg)BP works as the main but not in the pan
4f is a waste of money as you can only buy 1lb cans and a lb of 4f will out last your gun (nearly)as only 1 or 2 gr are used in a pan.
I have tried 777 and shokeys gold as a main charge with limited sucess. What I found does work is a duplex load of 3f and shockeys on top. The 3f bp is easily ignited by the pan sparks while the shockeys gold is lit by the already burning 3f BP main charge. The shokeys gold cleans things up but is inconsistant. The granules are of varying size and sometimes you get a lot of fine, fast burning dust and sometimes you get a load of aquarium gravel sized chunks that burn slow. I use it for fireforming BPCR brass now only.
 
Ol' Flinter said:
Forget using any of the BP substitues in a flintlock as ignition at the pan and main charge will be inconsistent as mentioned above. The old-timers primed with the same powder used for the main charge but now-days we tend toward FFFFg for the prime and either FFg or FFFg for the main charge. FFFg burns cleaner than FFG and many of us use FFFG in all calibers up to and including 54 cal to minimize barrel fouling. If you want to keep things simple, use FFFg for both priming and the main charge.
Click to expand...

This sums it up! Also: 3F for priming will result in slightly longer lock time compared to 4F. Also, if switching from 2F to 3F, reduce your load by about 10%.
 
pacobillie said:
This sums it up! Also: 3F for priming will result in slightly longer lock time compared to 4F. Also, if switching from 2F to 3F, reduce your load by about 10%.
Click to expand...

if its a well tuned gun any BP used in the pan would not be to noticeable on lock time. sadly not every gun out there has a well tuned lock especially the commercially made examples and forget the Indian imports
 
I have shot 777 from the time it was introduced and in many different guns. If you are using a newer gun using modern primers no issue. When it was first introduced Hodgins stated it was compatible in every blackpowder gun. A few years later a disclaimer arrives that 777 should only be used with modern primers for ignition. Any #11 capped gun I tried 777 in experienced hangfires and outright FTF even in inlines like a Knight or TC Scout. I suspect that a flinter would be the same -- not enough spark to RELIABLY ignite.

My current deer load is 100 gr FFFg behind a 190 grain Precision Rifle bullet, small rifle primer, in an original TC Encore = fast and flat
 
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