To follow up, the Savage Mod 12 LRP in 260 would do 0.6 moa at 100m 10 shot group when I replaced the stock bbl. It now has a MTU 11 bbl chamdered in 6 Dasher, it now runs +/- 0.5 moa. Screw torque is 55 in lbs on front, 30 inch pounds on the 2nd and 10 inch pounds on the rear trigger guard. Do you load to obt and ocw?
Flyers during load dev
- Thread starter MartyK2500
- Start date
Quick update . Although I could not get the 175 grain projectiles to shoot very well or consistently ( ??? ) in the new Savage Elite Precision , it seems to be a very different story with the 168 SMK's . Consistently shooting sub 1/2 moa at 200M . Not sure why I could not get the 175/178 bullets to work as I've tried several different brands and a few different powders . But no go . I only shoot for fun so I'll just continue on with the 168's .
Marty
I would ask about how you are sizing your brass.
If you are doing a full resize, you may just have too much moving when the round goes off.
I would try a neck resize only and see if that solves the problem.
If you don't have a neck sizing die, then back off the FL die so you don't bump the shoulder more than 0.001" or 0.002"... assuming you have a head space gage. If you don't, I can explain how you can make one with a couple drills of the right size.
As an example... My .223 shoots 1 MOA with small base resized brass and 1/2 MOA with fire formed neck resized brass.
One last sanity check... make sure the barrel is tight. You wouldn't be the first to have one come unscrewed.
I would ask about how you are sizing your brass.
If you are doing a full resize, you may just have too much moving when the round goes off.
I would try a neck resize only and see if that solves the problem.
If you don't have a neck sizing die, then back off the FL die so you don't bump the shoulder more than 0.001" or 0.002"... assuming you have a head space gage. If you don't, I can explain how you can make one with a couple drills of the right size.
As an example... My .223 shoots 1 MOA with small base resized brass and 1/2 MOA with fire formed neck resized brass.
One last sanity check... make sure the barrel is tight. You wouldn't be the first to have one come unscrewed.
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Even a 1:12 will stabilize a 175 grain bullet.
It likely has more to do with the actually bullet profile than anything.
Cat
Hi Maple, thanks for the heads up but have sold my rifle since.
Tom has got great pricing on the Bighorn Origin, decided to purge all my Savages and moving towards Origin actions, so I can use R700 stocks, TT diamond triggers, while still keeping savage small shank barrel prefits!
By the way I bump shoulder 1.5/2 thou every firing with a Redding body die, neck size with a Lee Collet die, And anneal every firing using an AMP MK2
Tom has got great pricing on the Bighorn Origin, decided to purge all my Savages and moving towards Origin actions, so I can use R700 stocks, TT diamond triggers, while still keeping savage small shank barrel prefits!
By the way I bump shoulder 1.5/2 thou every firing with a Redding body die, neck size with a Lee Collet die, And anneal every firing using an AMP MK2
The origin seems like a sweet action. I ended up with an arc nucleus due to no stock on the origin, but I would love to see how one feels. Hard to beat the price of an origin. I too have dumped all my savage center fire rifles and won't be ever getting another one.
Since I have more than one now, I have to wait for it to restock and have it pre-ordered.
A test soon to come, see how headspace if affected by bolt swapping.
Ideally it would move 0 thou, and when going to a match I could just bring an entire spare bolt in my bag for good luck.
I’ll never say never for Savage, won a few belly rifle matches with Savage.
You get lot’s of bang for the money with Savage actions and prefit barrels.
But, if money is not tight, nothing beats the feeling of a custom.
Replacement bolt heads are reasonably priced on the origin too which is nice. Lots of good builds with the origin on snipers hide.
I'm looking hard at getting a nucleus long action to compliment my short. Maybe a 223 bolt head as well then I'm covered for all calibers I would ever want to shoot
I'm saying never again for savage but my reasons aren't related to accuracy. I loved savage for the accuracy vs price. I had an incident that will keep me from owning another.
I look forward to seeing your next origin build
That is what shoulder bump dies are for .
Just because a person says they neck size it does not mean they don't do other brass prep either, nor does it mean they only neck size only all the time.
You sound like some sort of Kool-aid drinking extremist!
I know that the guy in the video has made a couple of them like that and I also know that Speedy Gonzales himself says he FL sizes with a .002 bump.
Speedy also set World records not too many years ago and I;m pretty sure he was not FL sizing them, but he was not asked that. The OP is getting fine results neck sizing , let it go .
Cat
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I've found that advice is usually given through the lens of ones own experiences and what works for one guy and why it works for him may not directly correlate to everyone else for all of there needs.
I would never ask a 100 yard bench rest shooter how to develop a load for PRS and I would not ask a PRS shooter how to develop loads for F Class... The reverse is also true.
I've tested plenty and never found full length resized cases to be as accurate or produce lower velocity spreads than fire formed cases. I don't know what caliber Trevor shoots to justify his rant on the point, but I accept his "suggestion" with a very large and off color grain of road salt and in the end I am not looking for his approval. I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do.
I will agree that for reliable feed and extraction, resized cases are most likely to be most reliable. For hunting and PRS shooting and such situations where reliable feeding is key, that some minimal resizing is certainly a good idea, but you may give up something.
If you goal is to see how accurate you can shoot, my money is on fire formed brass.
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It shouldn't have been taken as a rant but rather an informative talk on reloading and case processing. he makes several salient points
here is a follow up video... it seems there was quite the reaction
off topic but if you want the nth degree in reloading look up Jack Neary rifle tuning series.
Cheers
Trevor
here is a follow up video... it seems there was quite the reaction
off topic but if you want the nth degree in reloading look up Jack Neary rifle tuning series.
Cheers
Trevor
What I've found misleading about that video is the way they use the term "full length" itself. Sure, they are saying 0.002" but even that is left a little unclear.
That can be done with a custom die to minimally size the side wall and just bump the shoulder... which I have for my F Class gun.
It can be done with a standard full length die, or even a small base resizing die set high so it only bumps the shoulder 0.002". It can be done with incremental shell holders to bottom out the press and decrease the bump, or float the die.
100 percent agree that minimally resizing is ideal and repeatable, but everyone is extremely vague on specifics.
If they provided specifics, it would be far less controversial.
With reference to my comment earlier during load development, neck only sizing is still my preferred and most foolproof way of validating loads. Once that has been achieved... then work out the details of a "slight" shoulder bump for mass loading.
Most guys don't even have a headspace gage and dial indicator needed to confirm the amount of shoulder bump they are actually getting.
That can be done with a custom die to minimally size the side wall and just bump the shoulder... which I have for my F Class gun.
It can be done with a standard full length die, or even a small base resizing die set high so it only bumps the shoulder 0.002". It can be done with incremental shell holders to bottom out the press and decrease the bump, or float the die.
100 percent agree that minimally resizing is ideal and repeatable, but everyone is extremely vague on specifics.
If they provided specifics, it would be far less controversial.
With reference to my comment earlier during load development, neck only sizing is still my preferred and most foolproof way of validating loads. Once that has been achieved... then work out the details of a "slight" shoulder bump for mass loading.
Most guys don't even have a headspace gage and dial indicator needed to confirm the amount of shoulder bump they are actually getting.
And what about when the body doesn’t fit, regardless of how much you bump the shoulder?
When the best shooters in the world are telling you to full length size every time, that should count for something.
That's because body dies don't just bump the shoulders, they ALSO resize the body.
A shoulder bump die is kind of like a FLS die, that leaves the neck portion untouched, you then touch up the neck with the die of your choice.
Yes. No one is saying they don’t size their neck, or not to size the neck, for the obvious ridiculousness of that.
They’re saying that you need to size the body when bumping the shoulder .002” with a full length or body only die.
I run a Redding Comp die set. It has a body die which I bump my shoulder .002” every single time, and a bushing die for the neck to control neck tension with a floating sleeve to support the body of the case.
The body die, or “shoulder bump die” still sizes the body of the case all the way to the extractor groove.
They’re saying that you need to size the body when bumping the shoulder .002” with a full length or body only die.
I run a Redding Comp die set. It has a body die which I bump my shoulder .002” every single time, and a bushing die for the neck to control neck tension with a floating sleeve to support the body of the case.
The body die, or “shoulder bump die” still sizes the body of the case all the way to the extractor groove.
